Returning to game, Theory crafting

[Onisake]

Hello!

I'm coming back to the game. was giving the devs time to fix a lot of the crap that was broken. seeing a lot of good stuff.

I originally rolled PUG because a buddy of mine was rolling GLD to tank. we were both tanks in FFXI. but i decided i would focus DD first.

However he didn't come back with me, so i'm thinking of starting to gear for PLD.

I have a question on stat caps.

In my own theory crafting I'm thinking:

enmity=>HP=>MND=>VIT=>DEX=>STR=>mp.

However i know there is a DAMAGE cap on mnd. so many builds i see go for around ~300 MND. but i'm curious if there is a cap on enmity gain or healing from mnd?

because i'm less concerned about damage caps there may be benefit to continuing to stack MND where possible

[Molly_Millions]

Hello!

I'm coming back to the game. was giving the devs time to fix a lot of the crap that was broken. seeing a lot of good stuff.

I originally rolled PUG because a buddy of mine was rolling GLD to tank. we were both tanks in FFXI. but i decided i would focus DD first.

However he didn't come back with me, so i'm thinking of starting to gear for PLD.

I have a question on stat caps.

In my own theory crafting I'm thinking:

enmity=>HP=>MND=>VIT=>DEX=>STR=>mp.

However i know there is a DAMAGE cap on mnd. so many builds i see go for around ~300 MND. but i'm curious if there is a cap on enmity gain or healing from mnd?

because i'm less concerned about damage caps there may be benefit to continuing to stack MND where possible

try this instead:

enmity=>STR=>MND=>HP=>VIT=>DEX

But really, you'll probably never even need VIT. Damage mitigation from VIT sucks, the only other thing it does for PLD is give HP at a 1:1 ratio.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post708210

[Onisake]

With little to no acc i question the str stat. I understand it helps with damage cap. but i see absolutely no reason to put it before MND or HP.

does gear swapping before skills work? mitigation may suck, but it's better than not mitigating at all.

I see no purpose in focusing STR before MND. especially with no dex/acc. i can hit damage caps, but if spiritis within is the only thing that lands reliably, i'd rather pump mnd for better cures

[Molly_Millions]

I put STR before MND because it's your primary damage modifier. More damage = more hate, and damage will give you more hate than any amount of curing will. Add acc via electrum rings +1, you may only need 1.

[MoarLegion]

I say MND>STR, MND gives damage, healing potency, and acts as an additional modifier for Holy Succor and Flatblade combo. When you look at the whole picture you're getting more per point of MND than straight up STR.

[Chain]

Best thing to do is just realize that stats in this game as well as XI do very little overall, even after the "boost".

[Onisake]

Best thing to do is just realize that stats in this game as well as XI do very little overall, even after the "boost".

I played a galka in FFXI. i had my VIT/DEF score through the roof. top it off with my high HP i was very difficult to kill with a good healer behind me. me (pld/war) and a rdm/whm held faust for over 45 minutes while my LS killed Seiryu and ran over to us. 3 linkshells were waiting for me to die so they could take claim. Omega would regularly crit me for only 150. the stats don't do much, but if you push the limits they do a lot more than you think they do. Also, not to mention, that all of the 'caps' i see people talk about are soft caps not hard caps. if you really want to push your damage you can go past these caps. you just get less per point.

the DPS pld in FFXI was terrible, except in merit parties. even then i almost always went full tank and abused cover for inevitable hate loss.

Molly: have you parsed your healing amount vs your damage amount? even as a galka PLD i was healing a ton of HP. i got way more healing than damage done, and healing can't miss. not to mention in FFXIV healing can crit. and MND effects enmity.

how much of the damage are you actually doing? on a good day i'd expect to do 1/4 of the damage a real DPS does. if that's the case your damage really isn't doing crap for your enmity threshold. if you're doing 3/4 of the damage a real DPS does then i would buy it.

with no shadows, i have high doubts you can actually deal more damage than you heal for.

[Molly_Millions]

I played a galka in FFXI. i had my VIT/DEF score through the roof. top it off with my high HP i was very difficult to kill with a good healer behind me. me (pld/war) and a rdm/whm held faust for over 45 minutes while my LS killed Seiryu and ran over to us. 3 linkshells were waiting for me to die so they could take claim. Omega would regularly crit me for only 150. the stats don't do much, but if you push the limits they do a lot more than you think they do. Also, not to mention, that all of the 'caps' i see people talk about are soft caps not hard caps. if you really want to push your damage you can go past these caps. you just get less per point.

the DPS pld in FFXI was terrible, except in merit parties. even then i almost always went full tank and abused cover for inevitable hate loss.

Molly: have you parsed your healing amount vs your damage amount? even as a galka PLD i was healing a ton of HP. i got way more healing than damage done, and healing can't miss. not to mention in FFXIV healing can crit. and MND effects enmity.

how much of the damage are you actually doing? on a good day i'd expect to do 1/4 of the damage a real DPS does. if that's the case your damage really isn't doing crap for your enmity threshold. if you're doing 3/4 of the damage a real DPS does then i would buy it.

with no shadows, i have high doubts you can actually deal more damage than you heal for.

To be completely honest, I don't heal myself all that much on PLD, so I know for a fact that I, personally, generate more enmity from damage than healing. That's enough justification for me to keep going in the same direction I have been with PLD. In addition, there really shouldn't be a debate over whether to go with MND vs STR on PLD because the only item they can both be melded to is your sword, and enmity is better there anyway.

[Skies]

Onisake: Thing is, healing has reduced enmity generation in relation to damage (x0.6, if memory serves me well) and the enmity generate by healing is also spread by all targets on whose hate list you currently are on.

Also yes, PLD DPS is pretty bad but it's enmity combos are based off the damage they deal (Was it... x5.5 for Flat Blade and x3.5 for Spirits Within? With SW being actually about as powerful as Riot Blade) so dealing more damage MAY be prefferable. At this point it starts to become a personal issue, I think.

[Onisake]

Onisake: Thing is, healing has reduced enmity generation in relation to damage (x0.6, if memory serves me well) and the enmity generate by healing is also spread by all targets on whose hate list you currently are on.

Also yes, PLD DPS is pretty bad but it's enmity combos are based off the damage they deal (Was it... x5.5 for Flat Blade and x3.5 for Spirits Within? With SW being actually about as powerful as Riot Blade) so dealing more damage MAY be prefferable. At this point it starts to become a personal issue, I think.

sounds like damage would be better for short duration fights.

even with reduced enmity from healing how much damage are you really doing versus your healing? the ratio can be figured out to see which is really giving you more enmity. and with the +enmity from gear it's no longer 0.6. still not as good as the damage ratios however, especially since MND enhances them. but to me that's even more reason to focus MND over STR after i look at damage mitigation.

Majority of healing should be done on yourself. spread enmity is a good thing if you're tanking, last i checked. if i heal myself and there are 3 targets, i generate enmity on all 3 targets instead of just the one i do damage to. i don't see that as a factor for damage is better than healing.

I'm not sure on enmity generation from damage, but these seem like 'spike' abilities to me. SW combo requires a blocked attack for Phalanx. how often are you doing them? and they have to actually land. SW has high accuracy so landing this isn't a problem. Fast=>flat looks like it will be very TP dependent. how often do you have enough TP to land it? if geared correctly i'm sure you can land it everytime its up. but i worry about efficiency. I can also always carry two gear sets.

In XI the theory i used was damage is nice, but it is inconsistent. healing myself, is a constant enmity generation. cure 1 was spammable with a refresher, and gave a pretty constant amount of enmity. with an occasional cure II or III i was golden. auto-attacks by comparison gave similar enmity generation when landed, but could miss. against gods, forget it. i might do 16-30 damage and connect 60% of the time. almost all of my TP came from shield blocks and getting hit.

how does this translate to XIV? is it a similar situation? spam curing myself also reduced the work load on the whm. in large scale battles like dynamis, or mobs with a lot of AoE, knowing they didn't have to spam heal me to keep me alive allowed them to top off DPSers who were in the red. I also have my defensive capabilities to further mitigate damage. and since the point of damage mitigation is to reduce load from healers why not push this to an extreme? its one of the advantages we have over MRD tanks, exploit it.

overhealing means you have a bad healer. they should be leaving a buffer for the pld to heal itself. that or you're in a rare circumstance where you aren't taking enough damage.

Molly: I knew several plds that played that way in FFXI. they performed well. they were highly skilled and knew what they were doing. however in certain situations, especially against gods, they lost hate, a lot. they didn't have the damage mitigation to reliably maintain a high threshold. self healing is part of your damage mitigation.