No level sync, yes stats sync

[Bobby66]

Its a better experience than having everything stripped away and spamming 1 for 20 minutes.

20 min? You doing lowbie stuff wrong, at most the should take 15 min and that is pretty slow.

[Ransu]

SWTOR level scaling sucks. When a death field kills 5 mobs because you are max level scaled to 10 is insane. And that was implemented a while ago. The "ghost team" just revamped it to make comps effective. And the main skills don't scale anymore. I play SWToR and its crazy doing a lower planet and having max level skills. Takes all the fun out of the game....IMHO.

That's why I like the scaling in FF14. You can't just overpower everything.

Swtor scaling is fantastic. Don't know what you're on about.

[Kaedys]

I'd like to point out that this isn't just an issue with level sync. I almost quit the game during ARR, not due to relatively predictably story, but because combat felt so empty. The only thing that kept me going was FC members insisting it got better later, and then discovering Red Mage at 50, which actually had a fairly complete kit, insofar as it had all of the pieces already there that worked together. Ya, you get more added to it later, but the core mechanical concept (dual-cast, balanced mana, melee combo) was there from square 1.

So many jobs in FFXIV aren't that way (even some newer ones). Summoner has their core CD->gem summons kit by level 22, but Reaper lacks theirs it until 70 (Gibbet and Gallows) or even 80 (Enshroud and the Shroud Gauge). Paladin used to have this issue, since they didn't get their "spell phase" until 68, but the revamp means they have at least a somewhat smoother transition now, though they still lack their spellcasts until 64. Sages have their core mechanics (specifically, Eukrasia and Kardia) by 30, and their Addersgall mechanic at 45, and thus play at lower levels basically as they do at max, just with fewer oGCDs and cooldowns. Meanwhile, Dragoons don't get the core defining traits of their rotation (their 5-part melee combo and Life of the Dragon) until levels 64 and 70, respectively. Bards are literally lacking an entire third of their song rotation until level 52 (so, including the infamous Crystal Tower roulette). Machinists have their heat mechanic when they start at 30, but entirely lack a proper use for it until Heat Blast at level 35 (which really put me off the job at first, incidentally. They should really start with that. And probably get both Heat Blast and Hypercharge at a much lower level, since it's literally their central mechanic.). Ninjas in level 50 content are a metric pain due to lacking Armor Crush. And of course, Black Mages are notorious for being almost intolerable to play under like 80, and for their gameplay completely reinventing itself every 8-10 levels. And that's not even touching on the fact that several jobs (Ninja, Dragoon, healers) don't get their spammable AoEs until nearly 50.

Anyway, my point is that it's very scattered. Some jobs play just fine at lower levels, while others are absolutely atrocious. And this doesn't affect just level syncing, it also influences whether new players to the game are likely to stick around for it. If the first 40-50 levels, much less 80, of your job are insanely boring and unfun because you only have 25-50% of your literal core mechanical kit (looking at you Black Mage, Dragoon, and Reaper), it's much more likely for players to just go "eh, I'mma go play something fun" and entirely miss out on the later parts of the game where both the combat mechanics and the story get wildly better.

[Payadopa]

Then don't do roulettes. Easy solution. There are plenty of other ways to get the same rewards that roulettes offer.

Or how about SE makes dungeons more engaging? I'm not there for the rewards in the first place.

[Jojoya]

Or how about SE makes dungeons more engaging? I'm not there for the rewards in the first place.

So start a thread on how to make dungeons more engaging. That's a different topic from this one.

[Payadopa]

So start a thread on how to make dungeons more engaging. That's a different topic from this one.

It relates to the topic and you're not the arbiter of the forums.

[Jojoya]

It relates to the topic and you're not the arbiter of the forums.

Not hard to use the "it relates to the topic" argument for just about anything that would involve a dungeon.

There's a lot more to dungeon engagement than how many buttons players get to push. If all players needed to be engaged was push lots of buttons Stone, Sky, Sea would be an exceptionally busy place.

My suggestion was meant to help you get attention and discussion from those who are likewise dissatisfied with engagement in dungeons rather than have your comment buried in someone else's thread about a very narrow subset of factors that can affect engagement. But I guess you don't want a discussion of that after all. My bad.

[Ransu]

I'd like to point out that this isn't just an issue with level sync. I almost quit the game during ARR, not due to relatively predictably story, but because combat felt so empty. The only thing that kept me going was FC members insisting it got better later, and then discovering Red Mage at 50, which actually had a fairly complete kit, insofar as it had all of the pieces already there that worked together. Ya, you get more added to it later, but the core mechanical concept (dual-cast, balanced mana, melee combo) was there from square 1.

So many jobs in FFXIV aren't that way (even some newer ones). Summoner has their core CD->gem summons kit by level 22, but Reaper lacks theirs it until 70 (Gibbet and Gallows) or even 80 (Enshroud and the Shroud Gauge). Paladin used to have this issue, since they didn't get their "spell phase" until 68, but the revamp means they have at least a somewhat smoother transition now, though they still lack their spellcasts until 64. Sages have their core mechanics (specifically, Eukrasia and Kardia) by 30, and their Addersgall mechanic at 45, and thus play at lower levels basically as they do at max, just with fewer oGCDs and cooldowns. Meanwhile, Dragoons don't get the core defining traits of their rotation (their 5-part melee combo and Life of the Dragon) until levels 64 and 70, respectively. Bards are literally lacking an entire third of their song rotation until level 52 (so, including the infamous Crystal Tower roulette). Machinists have their heat mechanic when they start at 30, but entirely lack a proper use for it until Heat Blast at level 35 (which really put me off the job at first, incidentally. They should really start with that. And probably get both Heat Blast and Hypercharge at a much lower level, since it's literally their central mechanic.). Ninjas in level 50 content are a metric pain due to lacking Armor Crush. And of course, Black Mages are notorious for being almost intolerable to play under like 80, and for their gameplay completely reinventing itself every 8-10 levels. And that's not even touching on the fact that several jobs (Ninja, Dragoon, healers) don't get their spammable AoEs until nearly 50.

Anyway, my point is that it's very scattered. Some jobs play just fine at lower levels, while others are absolutely atrocious. And this doesn't affect just level syncing, it also influences whether new players to the game are likely to stick around for it. If the first 40-50 levels, much less 80, of your job are insanely boring and unfun because you only have 25-50% of your literal core mechanical kit (looking at you Black Mage, Dragoon, and Reaper), it's much more likely for players to just go "eh, I'mma go play something fun" and entirely miss out on the later parts of the game where both the combat mechanics and the story get wildly better.

This pretty much nails what I've been saying. Low level kits feel emptier and emptier with each expansion because they keep removing old stuff for new skills at later levels making low level kits feel more incomplete. Granted in ARR/HW the skills still trickled in and you didn't really feel any nuance till unlocking your job at 30, but the cross class system filled in the gaps back then. That said, I'm not advocating bringing cross class stuff back, but progression of skills needs to be revamped for 1-50 stuff.

[kevin_satron]

i feel like all skills should be unlockable at lv 70, so that when doing low level duty with enough kits, it will make it a bit more fun. lv 71-90 will be just a traits

but there's so much you have to look into like

1. stat
2. potency
3. button bloats
4. lore (job quest)
5. duty support
6. numbers (damage, hp, etc), talking about when they're lowering the numbers in EW for lv 51-90. they have to do it again for lv 1-50