Please bring back Kaiten

[RyuuZero]

I might sound a bit harsh, but I do not think anyone, before the release of Endwalker, truly said: "I want a Shoha II and I want it to be a move that's only effective on multiple enemies *and* be a completely separate button from Shoha I that uses the same resource."

Meanwhile, most people held Kaiten so close to the job identity of Samurai that they couldn't even fathom the idea of it being removed... until they did.

Hehe, that would be me, when they revealed Endwalker, I looked at the Samurai's Kit and I saw that we can either do a Big AoE or a Bigger Single Target Attack every 2 minutes and we can use the Meditation Stacks for a Single Target Attack.. so why can't we use Meditation Stacks for AoE? because we were not lvl82 xD
Just how Senei was the Single Target Counterpart at lvl72, so was Shoha II the AoE Counterpart to Shoha. Though I wouldn't say that I couldn't fathom the idea of being without Kaiten but I couldn't see the reason of being without Kaiten and after playing the Samurai without Kaiten my mission was clear to oppose this Kaitenlessness by figuring out the reason for Kaiten to exist, which yes Kaiten has to return!

[Ransu]

Merging skills that share a CD with each other and do literally the same thing is not even remotely the same as kaiten getting removed. For crying aloud when SAM was introduced we only had guren and it was used in both single target and aoe. While I think senei animations is way better, we seriously did not need a single target version of guren.
Nobody prohibited you from just not using Senei. If you hate to make decisions so much I just explained where it's place is.

Ehh WRONG: Shoha I are 5 Slashes

1. Downward to the Left
2. Downward to the Right
3. Upward to the Left
4. Horizontal to the Right+ 360° Spin Jump
5. Downward to the Right

Shoha II has 4 Slashes

1. Upwards to the Left, almost Vertically
2. Horizontal to the Right+ 360° Spin on the Ground
3. Downward in direction to your left foot
4. Downward in direction to your right foot

you disregard the decision because you've grown accustomed to it and you stopped thinking about it. I'm accustomed to it aswell though for me I see a Situation and I do the Skills that the Situation asks for. that's the Decision, I have to make.


They are a Part of the AoE Rotation, they offer you the ability to utilize the resources for the Situation in Question. Kaiten, also was a decision, to utilize 20 for the next Weaponskill to hit 50% harder, you could just not use it on the biggest Weaponskills that you have and now you can't use it

lmao...

/10char

[CelestiCer]

*snip*

Quite the reply summary to answer zero argument points.

Near all content that requires Area of Effect skills has 0x Enrages. Hence the AOE decision making vs ST is " Irrelevant " across all content for Samurai. Thus I question what High-End content or any content you do that makes you believe AOE vs ST decision making is important?. Cause factually, there is none.

Claim me to be ignorant
Then show me, what content you do that makes you find that decision making to weigh so heavy? Dungeons / Criterion / Extreme's / Savage / Ultimate.

Describe vividly on whatever it is you do in whatever content? to you is heavy decision making regarding AOE. Even after I finished all my Fates where you AOE a s*ht ton... I swear, I have no idea what you're talking about regarding this... decision making that just doesn't exist XD

[nguyentri11]

Not This Shit AGAIN!!!
by merging Shoha I with Shoha II you religate the Connected Resources to one sole Skill and remove the Players' Agency of Decision Making of Single Target OR AoE

It's a Part of the Samurai's Job Identity just like Kaiten was and just like the Devs removed Kaiten YOU want to remove another Aspect of the Samurai and dumbing down the Job that 'You Love' even more just so you can argue to get your precious Kaiten Back.

But Guess What! You want do not want to make a decision, you only want to spent Meditation Stacks and your 2 Minute Burst on One Button Each..

You know Dragoons exists, right? they do not have to make a decision just press Geirskogul every time and Wyrmwind Thrust does the exact same, That's what you want with Samurai Right?! The Only difference of DRG and SAM after your suggested Changes would be that Samurai spend his resources on Circle AoEs and the DRG on Line AoEs

Warrior: Upheaval/Orogeny(30s CD), Inner Chaos/Chaotic Cyclone(60s CD Infuriate)

Dark Knight: Carve and Spit/Abyssal Drain(60s CD)

Ninja: Hyosho Ranryu/Goka Mekkyaku(60s CD Kassatsu)

Reaper: Soul Slice/Soul Scythe(30s CD)

Black Mage: Xenoglossy/Foul(30s Polyglot)

Summoner: Energy Drain -> x2 Fester/Energy Siphon -> x2 Painflare(60s CD)

The simple decision of pressing a single target action versus an AoE variant of that action which shares its cooldown is not something special to Samurai.

[Wyssahtyn]

guy's just another troll at this point, i swear

[Poorman]

Reminder: If you liked this change, you were not a samurai main. Flat out. This change was made by people who did not have a real feel or love for the class.
There are a million things they could have done to remove button bloat, I'm sitting here with 5 button combos that take up 9 button slots, and realistically it only has to be 5. I see Ishikoten that could share a button with Ogi Namakiri, I see Iaijutsu that could Easily share the same button as Tsubame-geshi.

This change bothers me so much that I've switched off Samurai almost entirely. The changes to the buffs were nice when Endwalker came out, but looking back they were the canary in the coal mine that they didn't really know what they wanted Samurai to be.



Just implement autocombos. They're worried about it making the game feel trivial, they can do it where it only unlocks at level cap with class, that would probably fix the issues. But, as it stands, they took an entire resource mechanic and basically invalidated it. Kenki should be removed as a mechanic entirely in its current state, and replaced with a cooldown system for the abilities. They made Hissatsu cost the same across the board, Kaiten was the last bit of decision making in the resource. It just needs to be brought back. There's really no other way to put it, it was the lynch-pin that held Samurai's flow together. Without it, there's just no grace to Samurai. They ripped out every bit of branching in the flow chart besides "Single target, or AOE?" It feels aggravating to play now, and as someone who has played this game since HW, fell in love with it, it just doesn't add up why they'd make this change.

They've opened the door to the class becoming automated: Every kenki move / kenki generating ability can be braindead spammed in the order: BIG HISSATSU -> LITTLE HISSATSU -> IKISHOTEN -> SHOHA (depending on aoe or single target). I bought a mouse with side panel buttons, and will just drag my thumb across these 4 buttons over and over, no longer having to pay attention to my shoha stacks or my kenki. It's just a reflexive movement I've gotten used to, because it's now the optimal way to play samurai: Head empty, don't worry about your kenki, just drag your thumb across 4 buttons in a fight over and over, that's now Samurai peak performance.

So, I just don't play it anymore. I don't play reaper or monk either, it feels like I'm conceding defeat, I've just given up on Melee DPS entirely and am trying out machinist instead.

To everyone who is mad about Kaiten still: Keep being mad. Keep making threads, keep posting, keep airing the grievences (do NOT harass devs or mods, seriously, that's too far and fucked up, won't get anyone anywhere). And anyone who thinks this is a good change, I genuinely kinda feel bad for you. Either you didn't get to play the class in its prime, or you didn't understand what you had when you did.