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  1. #1
    Player
    Renalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    3,886
    Character
    Renalt El'doran
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90

    The Official Forums is an EXTREMELY poor example of a "Good Community"

    Bit of a disclaimer here...This is going to be a LONG post. Probably 2 posts so please hold any and all comments till I say I'm finished at the bottom. Of course you don't have to...but I'd like that. Also this rant ( Yeah a rant kinda ) is coming from a place of love. I love you guys and that's the honest truth. I've made a lot of friends on these forums and I appreciate you guys, but I am worried about some of you. I'm about to disclose some personal things about myself that is going to explain why I handle things the way I do. I hope you can learn what I learned just from my story and not in the way I learned it.

    Immediately the TL;DR here is gonna be - People? Come on. Chill out.

    Ok so I've been here for a little less than a year but most of you know me and know I'm practically here every day and hitting post caps quite often. You'll also notice for the MOST part I really don't take part in...heated "discussions" and if I DO join in...I usually say my piece and that's it. I also just make jokes...about everything.

    However this post here is going to be pretty serious.

    Ok introduction over. Time for the meat of things. The Official Forums is a poor example of a good community. Why would I say this?

    People are so ANGRY on here. I feel like any thread I go into I should wear a helmet and low crawl so I don't take a stray right to the dome. Even posts just about sitting animations devolves into a rage fest. I'm not saying "Hey suck it up buttercup" or anything of the sort. This is how things get fixed. You have an issue, you lay out what that issue is, you might give a suggestion or two, you may or may not get some like minded individuals to agree and validate the issue OR maybe disagree and have a counter point, but then leave it at that.

    However...it usually ends up with people getting offended or try to make it political somehow. Take the sit poses thread for an example. One side will be like, "Hey all races should have all sit animations" while the other side will be like "That defeats having races feel different from others."

    Both have valid views but both sides REFUSE to take a moment and even consider the other side. It's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone. You can try your best but you will fail at one point or another. Fix one thing and break two in the process. I've tried coding before. I DO NOT have the patience for it. I feel like coding is nothing short of writing spells and "Bam"...the magic happens and things are done. Just you reading this post is...mindboggling if you think about it. I'm clickity clacking away on a keyboard that is just on circuits, chips, and electricity and it becomes letters somehow. Anyway I digress...

    Part 2 incoming
    (46)
    When you deal with human beings, never count on logic or consistency.

    Fluid like water. Smooth like silk. Pepperoni like pizza.

  2. #2
    Player
    Renalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    3,886
    Character
    Renalt El'doran
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Sorry I'm having a heard time putting the thoughts and feelings into words so I may get off track.

    Anyway people feel SO strongly about things and passion is good but you gotta leave out the hate. None of us are special. What one likes someone else is gonna hate and that's just the way things are going to be. If there is a middle ground I'm sure they are trying to get that up and running. You guys just somehow react as if you have been personally WRONGED and you just hold grudges. I UNDERSTAND that feeling. It feels good to be angry and feel validated in your rage. I've been there. However let me tell you from experience...Rage has a cost and I'm going to tell you what I paid.

    Decades ago when I was 18 I had a big fight with my family. My other specifically and I heard what most have probably heard before..."You live under our house, so you live under our rules". Well I said "Understandable. Goodbye" and I left. I was so angry at them ( sorry not going into the why ) and I moved out of state and as far away as possible. I didn't say a WORD to them for years. People in my hometown actually thought I was dead because I popped smoke and vanished with no word and that's the way I wanted it. I wanted to punish them for what they did and I felt JUSTIFIED in my anger. However years go by and my aunt tracked me down while I was at work...

    "Renalt. Your mother is dead. Please come home."

    I was still angry. I told them I was busy at work and couldn't be bothered with things. So they left. It wasn't until like another 2 years when I reconciled with my family and paid them a visit. I just got home and I was on the couch and for the most part it was exactly the same house. "Oh hey that's a nice vase. When did you get that?" "I got it when your mother died".

    That was the moment it just all hit me. I was so STUPID and I wasted all these years on a stupid argument. Can I apologize? No. She's in front of me but she is just a pile of ashes. Nothing I can do now. That was the moment I promised myself to...just let things go. Don't let things get to me and hold grudges forever. It's not healthy and yeah it FEELS good to be angry and get the adrenaline pumping but eventually you're gonna come down from that and you will have paid the price in one way or another be it time, friends, family, whatever.

    Now I know a death in the family and some mechanics in a game is comparing apples to buildings...but the moral of it is sound. Yes...some things in the game are going to upset you. Some people are gonna like a thing and others will not. All of that is OK. Say your piece then move on. You'll be happier for it.
    (37)
    When you deal with human beings, never count on logic or consistency.

    Fluid like water. Smooth like silk. Pepperoni like pizza.

  3. #3
    Player
    Kalania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Ciaria
    Posts
    111
    Character
    Kerensa Artani
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 71
    Quote Originally Posted by Renalt View Post
    Sorry I'm having a heard time putting the thoughts and feelings into words so I may get off track.

    Anyway people feel SO strongly about things and passion is good but you gotta leave out the hate. None of us are special. What one likes someone else is gonna hate and that's just the way things are going to be. If there is a middle ground I'm sure they are trying to get that up and running. You guys just somehow react as if you have been personally WRONGED and you just hold grudges. I UNDERSTAND that feeling. It feels good to be angry and feel validated in your rage. I've been there. However let me tell you from experience...Rage has a cost and I'm going to tell you what I paid.

    Decades ago when I was 18 I had a big fight with my family. My other specifically and I heard what most have probably heard before..."You live under our house, so you live under our rules". Well I said "Understandable. Goodbye" and I left. I was so angry at them ( sorry not going into the why ) and I moved out of state and as far away as possible. I didn't say a WORD to them for years. People in my hometown actually thought I was dead because I popped smoke and vanished with no word and that's the way I wanted it. I wanted to punish them for what they did and I felt JUSTIFIED in my anger. However years go by and my aunt tracked me down while I was at work...

    "Renalt. Your mother is dead. Please come home."

    I was still angry. I told them I was busy at work and couldn't be bothered with things. So they left. It wasn't until like another 2 years when I reconciled with my family and paid them a visit. I just got home and I was on the couch and for the most part it was exactly the same house. "Oh hey that's a nice vase. When did you get that?" "I got it when your mother died".
    Your situation is the reason why I do not cut off my mother; my parents and I (more my mother and I) do not really see eye to eye. My mother is disdainful of my choices in life; my choice to be a traditional wife and mother instead of going to college and working a unfulfilling job. I've thought many times of moving but I'd never actually fully cut her off, even though many would say I should. Kin and Kith, it's an important thing.

    Btw I had a cousin who committed suicide. We lived so far from family though; if I had known; I wish I had reached out to him, been a friend at least.
    (5)

  4. #4
    Player
    Zaniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    381
    Character
    Zaniel Taephen
    World
    Sophia
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    I didn't read 11 pages of replies but this forum is EXTREMELY small compared to other MMOs I have played, even ones with much smaller playerbases. If you read WoW's forums or even a smaller game like Warframe you will hardly see the same people posting twice (other than a few regular trolls). Here? Literally every post is one of the "usual suspects" (on any particular side of a viewpoint).

    When you get small population samples like this, the people posting tend to be extremists in a general sense and so views are condensed right down to the far ends of each limit of the bell curve. Just picking numbers out of the air in somewhere like WoW you have 1% of the population posting and 99% ignoring the forums and that's already super concentrated for opinions, then you come here and its like 0.01% posting and 99.99% just playing the game. There is no way that is conducive to broad-based, population representative discourse, in fact I would pretty say every single OP in this forum holds extreme or generally unrepresentative views (regardless of topic or side).
    (5)

  5. #5
    Player
    Amenara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    1,040
    Character
    Rhela Tsurugi
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaniel View Post
    I didn't read 11 pages of replies but this forum is EXTREMELY small compared to other MMOs I have played, even ones with much smaller playerbases. If you read WoW's forums or even a smaller game like Warframe you will hardly see the same people posting twice (other than a few regular trolls). Here? Literally every post is one of the "usual suspects" (on any particular side of a viewpoint).

    When you get small population samples like this, the people posting tend to be extremists in a general sense and so views are condensed right down to the far ends of each limit of the bell curve. Just picking numbers out of the air in somewhere like WoW you have 1% of the population posting and 99% ignoring the forums and that's already super concentrated for opinions, then you come here and its like 0.01% posting and 99.99% just playing the game. There is no way that is conducive to broad-based, population representative discourse, in fact I would pretty say every single OP in this forum holds extreme or generally unrepresentative views (regardless of topic or side).
    To be fair, there is an actual shot (albeit extremely small) that a blue will respond to your topic if it is a worthwhile discussion on the WoW forums. I'd imagine the FF14 forums would be a bit more popular if there was any semblance of SE caring about our opinions at all here.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player
    Zaniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    381
    Character
    Zaniel Taephen
    World
    Sophia
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Amenara View Post
    To be fair, there is an actual shot (albeit extremely small) that a blue will respond to your topic if it is a worthwhile discussion on the WoW forums. I'd imagine the FF14 forums would be a bit more popular if there was any semblance of SE caring about our opinions at all here.
    That's sort of a chicken/egg problem. If the forums are extremist and/or unrepresentative then the devs have no real reason to view them. Which came first? Dunno, but it's the end-state in which it currently resides.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player Seraphor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4,620
    Character
    Seraphor Vhinasch
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    It's online forums, what do you expect?
    People either come here for lore/mechanics discussion, or they come here to complain about whatever grievances they have with the game, and the latter is far more common.

    If you want 'community' then you want to play the actual game, or join some of the discords built around it.
    (13)

  8. #8
    Player
    Renalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    3,886
    Character
    Renalt El'doran
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    It's online forums, what do you expect?
    People either come here for lore/mechanics discussion, or they come here to complain about whatever grievances they have with the game, and the latter is far more common.

    If you want 'community' then you want to play the actual game, or join some of the discords built around it.
    I agree somewhat. Like I said I've made some good friends on here and now I have ways to keep in touch with them outside of the forums. My post is just an opinion and people can take it however they like. Not really a wrong answer to be had here. If even one person is like "Yeah ok that makes sense." I'll consider it time well spent.
    (7)
    When you deal with human beings, never count on logic or consistency.

    Fluid like water. Smooth like silk. Pepperoni like pizza.

  9. #9
    Player NekoMataMata's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    1,849
    Character
    Feline Good
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    It's online forums, what do you expect?
    People either come here for lore/mechanics discussion, or they come here to complain about whatever grievances they have with the game, and the latter is far more common.

    If you want 'community' then you want to play the actual game, or join some of the discords built around it.
    Issue with that is that you'll get flayed alive if you criticize the game even remotely in most FFXIV discords. Usually in the fashion of a couple handfuls worth of people coming out to disagree and reprimand you for your opinion before agreeing with each other over and over again or ranting about how you or anyone else could ever feel that way before a server moderator DMs you about the mess you've apparently created.

    I realize the forums is the exact opposite sometimes but... Some people just want to be around people that have actual balanced opinions and can tolerate others to a degree. It's a small sacrifice to make for being able to chat about the game freely.
    (11)

  10. #10
    Player Padudu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,120
    Character
    Padudu Moro
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    If you aren't constantly complaining, are you even living?

    But yeah, community: actually playing the game or joining discords. It's not as easy and such, but usually it's more of a good time.

    How are hanging in there, Renalt? You good homie?
    (5)

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