Undercutting

[dspguy]

Supply and demand... you need to study economics.

Sure. But you also don't see prices slashed by 90% either. Remember, this is a video game, not real-life. Some concepts from the real world do apply, but not all.

For example, in the real world, the average consumer sees jars of peanut butter for $4.99, $4.89 and $4.79 and goes with the $4.79 one... especially if the $4.79 is the same volume of product. However, when the shelves are filled with peanut butter, it isn't like one brand drops the price by 75% either. Nor do people commonly buy up the 75% off peanut butter and then relist it back for $4.99. We don't own stores. And if we resell through eBay, Amazon, etc - they take a substantial cut.

Imagine Lowes selling 2x4s for $8 each and seeing their competitor selling them for $6 each and buying them out. In FFXIV, that transfer of lumber from their retainer to your retainer is instantaneous and costs a negligible amount (retainer/MB tax). But Lowes would have to physically move all that lumber from one warehouse to the other, possibly lose some due to damage and wind up at a loss.

It isn't apples to apples and pretending it is is just plain silly.

[Jojoya]

Sure. But you also don't see prices slashed by 90% either. Remember, this is a video game, not real-life. Some concepts from the real world do apply, but not all.

For example, in the real world, the average consumer sees jars of peanut butter for $4.99, $4.89 and $4.79 and goes with the $4.79 one... especially if the $4.79 is the same volume of product. However, when the shelves are filled with peanut butter, it isn't like one brand drops the price by 75% either. Nor do people commonly buy up the 75% off peanut butter and then relist it back for $4.99. We don't own stores. And if we resell through eBay, Amazon, etc - they take a substantial cut.

Imagine Lowes selling 2x4s for $8 each and seeing their competitor selling them for $6 each and buying them out. In FFXIV, that transfer of lumber from their retainer to your retainer is instantaneous and costs a negligible amount (retainer/MB tax). But Lowes would have to physically move all that lumber from one warehouse to the other, possibly lose some due to damage and wind up at a loss.

It isn't apples to apples and pretending it is is just plain silly.

Yet supply and demand still have an impact on the marketboard prices.

Why does the Suzusaurus that was selling for 12 million gil 3 weeks ago now go for just over a million? Because supply increased while the number of players who are willing to pay 12 million gil for it has not. Sellers kept undercutting each other trying to stay at the top of the list while buyers continued to pass on the opportunity. The price seems to be stable for the near future but it will soon be taking another dip as the players willing to buy at 1-1.5 million get theirs and move on.

Real world manufacturers will also slash their prices on some items by 75-90% just as the retailers do. They too have to worry about transport of items and storage, not to mention flaws created in the manufacturing process. There was a dessert factory near where I used to live that supplied upscale restaurants and also sold under a retail brand. Twelve slice moussecakes would typically run $20-25 retail and $15 to the restaurants (while the restaurants would sell those slices at $5-$7 each) . But the factory seconds would sell for $4-5 in their outlet shop attached to the factory. More badly damaged ones could be priced at $1. It was a great price for a quality dessert that had the whipped cream decoration slightly off center or a small section of crust chipped off.

You're right that it's not directly apples to apples but there are definitely points where real life versus game are comparable.

So when this is a game and players aren't concerned with the overhead and logistics in the real life manufacturing to retail process, when there is no variation in quality beyond it's either HQ or NQ, why are so many obsessed with making massive profits on items that are neither rare nor difficult to produce then throwing hissy fits when someone decides to undercut them by a large amount so the prices are more reasonable for the buyer?

I'm going to undercut as I feel appropriate. One gil isn't appropriate, it's a coward's game. If you think the current lowest seller's price is fair, then price match. Take your chances that the next buyer is going to pick your item and not the other seller's. If it truly is a fair price for an item in demand, both items will end up selling and you get to keep that one gil.

[dspguy]

Yet supply and demand still have an impact on the marketboard prices.

Why does the Suzusaurus that was selling for 12 million gil 3 weeks ago now go for just over a million? Because supply increased while the number of players who are willing to pay 12 million gil for it has not. Sellers kept undercutting each other trying to stay at the top of the list while buyers continued to pass on the opportunity. The price seems to be stable for the near future but it will soon be taking another dip as the players willing to buy at 1-1.5 million get theirs and move on.

You talk about how sometimes retailers have to slash prices. Of course that happens, and we see that in FFXIV. But it is usually something along the lines of old items becoming obsolete, like the classical gear when rinascita came out. Or if some item becomes available by some other means for less effort. However, you don't see retailers cutting prices if the "sale history" is healthy - lots of sales per day at a certain price. They don't cut it by 50% just out of spite. You will see retailers undercut others - of course they can't do it 1 penny at a time - the effort to relist and advertise those prices just isn't worth it.

As for the items where cutting prices makes sense - there are going to be items that fit that bill - mounts and minions and stuff that sells a few times per week for 7-to-8 digit gil where the lower price does matter. For those items, the decision to buy is made when they punch in the item name and see the price.

The other 99% of the stuff on the marketboard - the decision is made when they walk up to the marketboard. Not when they see the price. It doesn't matter what the price is. If you play the 1 gil game on the rest of the economy, that is the way to win.

[Jojoya]

that is the way to win.

You're assuming every seller looks at the marketboard as a game to win.

Not all do. For some, they're just trying to make a bit of gil off things they don't want/need.

That's where it gets weird in a game. Not everyone is participating for the same reasons.

[Canadane]

I am currently undercutting a few people by hundreds of thousands. I don't sell big ticket items often, and I price matched the lowest and kept matching for a while but they just kept going lower.
I don't particularly need the gil, so if I sell them at a loss...oh well. Shoulda played nice, other people!

[texas_boy]

...I don't sell big ticket items often, and I price matched the lowest and kept matching for a while but they just kept going lower.
... Shoulda played nice, other people!

***THIS*** . You try and play nice and match others but they undercut because they just *have* to be the 1st listed. If you gather and make your own mats *anything* you sell it for is profit outside of your repair. I'll play with you for a few iterations but if the bots keep undercutting by a gil I'll drop the price by 50%. Sells fast and not having to readjust the price 25 times a day. Still 100% profit and not playing the drop it a gil at a time game.

Tried playing the undercut by a gil game for a while but it was a full-time job trying to keep up w/ all the bots/1 gil undercutters. Profits have increased 10-fold using this method, and the stress is waaaay lower.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I know this is a *huge* first world problem.

But really, we need to make it a reportable offense if someone undercuts massively. I'm seeing items that were previously going for over a million gil go to less than 200k in a day because people undercut by 200k each.

This is making it nearly impossible to make *any* money on the MB.

nope lol (Only thing that needs fixed is bots)

[KatherineOrnitier]

If want to report people for undercutting then you also want to report people for overpricing cause they are the same and are both bad reasons.
Cause how would that even work? Who determines the price and whats "too little" and and thus reportable/banable.

To me it just seems that you had a way of making money for a while and got upset when people came in and undercut and don't want to do anything else to make money.
I also make money on the MB, mostly via buying and selling. It's all about supply and demand and a little luck.

[ValkyrieL]

Need to add a 25% relisting fee for bots
Everyone gets a daily free listing a day.
If you want to bot by undercutting 10x a day than you will pay high fees

[dspguy]

The new Orthos mount costs you nothing. Going to undercut that by 50% and then another 50% when someone matches you?