I see certain posters are getting a bit better at masquerading as high school mean girls! Well done on that front I suppose. I'm not sure what the point of pretending that sources aren't being provided is when they clearly are and have been a great many times across numerous threads.

As an aside, I only bothered to weigh in because despite apparently being 'tired' of discussing the Ancients, the moment some random poster comes to the conclusion that Venat's actions were pretty messed up and posts as much there's a clear swarm from some of the usual suspects who attempt to deflect away from that and deflect the narrative and discussion elsewhere.

Though based on past interactions alone, I'm not inclined to take the claims of certain posters being here in good faith when they have a long and storied history of stalking, harassment, impersonation, homophobic commentary, sexist commentary and bizarre and deranged insinuations about 'secret Midlander fascists'. Then there's that time a certain someone came into Lore Lines - a Discord server set up with the intention of mostly discussing the game's antagonists in a place away from the official forum. Yet even there that individual tried to demand that any talk of Venat was rid of any mention of genocide or vilification.

Such actions have made it pretty clear to many of us that those responsible are not acting in good faith.

Since such evidence is spicy, I won't post it here for obvious reasons though I encourage those interested to message me in-game sometime and we can exchange Discord names (on a throwaway account if one prefers) and I can happily provide the rather numerous examples of exactly what certain posters claiming to be here for 'discussion' have been caught saying and doing in their spare time.

All that aside, though, it's rather disingenuous to pretend as if numerous posters have not provided sources that expose Venat as making a token, deceptive effort to save her people. I have done so myself, many times including in the prior post in this very thread. It's a bit too late to try and pretend as if the people criticising Hydaelyn are just stupid and do not get it.

The offer to agree to disagree still stands, of course. I'm not sure why some here are so invested in the idea of everybody insisting that Venat was correct. With the amount of blood staining her hands and the cost of her actions coming at the expense of a whole, it isn't really that unreasonable for someone to consider it to be too lofty a cost. Just as someone can choose to come to the same conclusion regarding the Rejoinings. Not everyone subscribes to protagonist centered morality, I'm afraid - and they certainly don't take their cues on such things from a video game of all things in the first place.

Though I'm increasingly convinced that some here secretly like the Ancients very much or have at least realised that the decision to tie them to pretty much everything has made it near impossible to talk around them when it comes to many aspects of the story.

It's still a while until Dawntrail, too, so I imagine the 'discussions' will continue right up until the expansion's launch and well beyond it.

Perhaps that is an unfortunate consequence of the game itself being little more than a Second Life clone for heavily modded characters awkwardly standing around in drama infested venues doing the bee's knees emote. As unfortunately witnessed in great numbers whenever anyone gets the thought to check Twitter for nice art of the game's characters only to find the FFXIV tag bloated with such things instead.