What lore do you ignore?

[Anonymoose]

People lost faith in the Convocation's leadership. They began to question whether Amaurot could afford to be so reliant on Creation magic, seeing how spectacularly it had backfired on them (EE(3), p.11). Times were changing, and the Convocation failed to acknowledge this and change with it. A coup would be inevitable under such an impasse, although under any other leadership it would have likely have ended in a complete massacre in the Convocation's favour.

No disagreements - eloquently stated - just wanted to throw into the mix for the sake of it rarely coming up that Emet-Selch said that the act of summoning Zodiark brought the Convocation members into symbiosis with the psychospiritual gravity well his emerging essence, inadvertently tempering them. One of Venat's companions later states that one of the reasons things are so dire is that the Convocation will no longer hear anyone out, and I imagine this was especially true once Zodiark re-manifested Primal Elidibus to ensure everyone stayed on the "proper course". Personally I tend to connect these two claims in my interpretations of the scenes.

Combined with the restrictions you've outlined it's hard to imagine any course of action that does not play directly into Meteion's hands, especially under the contextual constraints of time and the actions of others already in motion. It can be imagined, of course, but virtually all of the quest content, developer statements, and Encyclopaedia text supports that we're supposed to assume futility by the time the first two waves of sacrifices were made, the plan to sacrifice new life was decided, and civil war was at its climax.

I'm not saying the execution of the storytelling was clean, but I am saying that, when one knows where the developer's heads are at, rooting for one's counter-interpretation to pan out is - generally speaking - setting oneself up for disappointment.

CITATIONS

We summoned Him, as your kind might summon a primal─albeit an infinitely more powerful one. And like one of your primals, He tempered us. It was only natural. There is no resisting such power. And so we Ascians came to exist solely to bring about the rule of darkness. His darkness.
Ça te revient en mémoire, maintenant? Tu n'aurais tout de même pas également oublié que lorsque les hommes-bêtes invoquent leurs Primordiaux des temps modernes, ils entrent en symbiose avec leur énergie et deviennent des “subjugués”, hein? Rassure-moi, tu commences à me faire peur! Eh bien, figure-toi que le processus est exactement le même pour nous. Pour faire simple, celui qui croit pouvoir résister à l'influence psychique d'un être aussi démesurément puissant ne peut qu'être lourdement déçu. C'est ainsi que les Asciens sont devenus les courroies de transmission de l'énergie de Zordiarche, mon jeune ami! Notre existence n'a qu'un seul but: amplifier et étendre la part de Ténèbres dans l'univers tout entier."
Wir riefen ihn mit unseren Wünschen und Gebeten, so wie die niederen Völker es heute mit den Primae machen-obwohl der Vergleich angesichts Zodiarks Stärke ein Frevel ist. Und wie die Primae es mit ihren Anbetern tun, ergriff er von uns Besitz. Ein natürlicher Vorgang. Nichts kann seiner geistigen Kraft widerstehen. So kam es, dass die Ascians sein Werk taten und zu Boten der Dunkelheit wurden. Seiner Dunkelheit.
現代の人は、神降ろしをしたり、蛮神のエネルギーを身に受けることで、強制的な同調……テンパード状態になるだろう？実のところ、私たちにも、同じことは起きている。精神への干渉こそ、いくらかは防げるが、あれほどの存在を顕現させれば、どうしても引っ張られるのさ。結果、アシエンはゾディアークの有する力……「闇」とも呼ばれる、活性と激化の力に寄った存在に、ならざるを得なかったわけだ。

Nay. Should we continue down this path, our fate will be the same. said as much to the Convocation, of course, but the stubborn fools turned a deaf ear to my warnings.
Malheureusement, nous courons plus que jamais à notre perte. Cet artifice n'a fait que retarder l'inéluctable. J'ai bien tenté d'en faire part au Concile des Quatorze, mais mon avis n'a pas été pris en compte.
Einspruch. Wenn wir weitermachen wie bisher, werden wir das Ende bestenfalls hinauszögern. Alle Versuche der Kontrolle sind zwecklos. Das haben wir dem Konvent der Vierzehn bereits nahegelegt, aber unsere Einwände wurden in den Wind geschlagen.
いいや、我々が今のままで在り続けるかぎり、どれほど制御を試みたとて、終末を先延ばしにしているにすぎん…。 十四人委員会にも、そう進言したが、残念ながら、取り合ってはもらえなんだ…。

[ZavosEsperian]

Even if you want to go the 'What if' route, you have an obligation to follow the restrictions placed by previous story telling.

To this point here, it would appear you are creating the restrictions pertaining to events related to Elpis and their consequences as the writers themselves leave anything involving how the timestream flows as open-ended, where the player/reader is the one free to interpret this however they like, be these converging or diverging timestreams:

Q: I don’t really understand why the Warrior of Light messing around in Elpis didn’t create any alternate timelines. Can you explain what happened?

A: First of all, we’ve left that part up to interpretation.

With that said, my personal interpretation is that the past and present were always the part of the same timeline. Although there was still a possibility for the timelines to diverge, the Warrior of Light was unwittingly acting in accordance with Venat’s plans, which unified the past and present. Another interpretation might be that Venat worked really hard behind the scenes to ensure that the timeline wouldn’t go awry.

Seeing how Argos took to us on our first meeting, I’d say that proves that the past and present were already unified. -Yoshi-P

Link to video with timestamp at（03:18:39)

Link to Forum Post

-Letter from the Producer LIVE Part LXVIII (03/03/2022)

Your interpretation appears to be more in-line with Yoshi-P's which is one of convergence. With that said, Yoshi-P and the writers are not dismissive of the idea of divergent timestreams, which would allow for more potential outcomes overall. So as far as 'What ifs' are concerned, under divergence they would be allowed to manifest should this be the approach taken. Generally, convergence would have to reconcile with various paradoxes (such as the bootstrap paradox and Ex Nihilo Paradox) in order to properly function unless we are still inside of the loop itself, however that is just an opinion in terms of my thoughts on converging timestreams.

For example, Emet makes it clear that was relatively easy for Amaurotines to identify deception. Not only did they have the power to read others' memories, but Venat gave a demonstration of how the land itself could serve as witness to a conversation that nobody else was privy to (Lv. 87, A Flower upon Your Return). We saw how quickly the Amaurotine trio on Elpis arrived at the secret behind our arrival once Venat started asking the right questions. Even revealing partial knowledge of an event effectively renders it public domain, which is quite dangerous.

We also know that any branch histories in which Hermes regains his memories prematurely are bad endings, as are any branches in which he does not join the Convocation or is ousted from it. According to Elidibus, Fandaniel was critical to the Amaurotine defense against the Final Days. As assayer of extant phenomenon, he was the first to identify that the transformations first took root at places where the celestial currents were weakest. He also dedicated himself to developing the countermeasure. This, in conjunction with Lahabrea's experiments on Archaeotania and the subsequent development of primal summoning, gave rise to Zodiark as the 'Will of the Star' (EE(3), p.10). Without his contributions, Amaurot would have perished then and there (Lv.86, Return to the Crystarium). Accidentally refreshing Hermes' memory would have been a relatively easy trap to fall into, given the nature of their society.

In the Lv. 86 quest Lives Apart, Hermes reveals that not only was Dynamis a relatively unstudied phenomenon, but that the rest of Amaurotine society had not sufficiently advanced their technological development to the point of creating space travel. This creates a catch-22. Hermes is the only person from that time period with the knowledge to create either an entelechy or a being capable of traversing space. But the very act of unlocking those memories would have rendered him uncooperative, resulting in a bad end. In effect, the only solution was to forestall the Final Days until society had developed the technology to mount a counteroffensive.

Everything bolded here subjected to the Catch 22 argument is a false argument. Per the MSQ quest Caging the Messenger, the only memories subjected to Kairos' memory alteration are those from the point Emet-Selch arrives to Elpis (and subsequently the WoL) up to the point where he is invoking Kairos. Kairos does not affect Hermes'/Fandaniel's prior knowledge/wisdom on Dynamis or space travel, as Meteion, along with her sisters, were all created prior to Emet-Selch's arrival.:

Transcript for Caging the Messenger

Transcript of events in question:
Kairos:
Memory reconfiguration system Kairos activated. Awaiting instruction.

Hermes:
Command: universal memory alteration. Target area: Ktisis Hyperboreia.

Starting point: arrival of Emet-Selch of the Convocation at Propylaion. End point: the present.

Erase the memories of all events, and replace with a vague recollection of the following:

I was here, preparing to demonstrate the functionality of Kairos to Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus.

Meteion's shared consciousness became unstable. She and her sisters could not sustain their existence, and all dissipated with a burst.

The resultant shockwave accidentally triggered Kairos, which erased several days of memories from all present. Execute.
Kairos:
Command acknowledged. Initializing... Three processes remaining to execution

YT video with timestamp 8:25

-MSQ Caging the Messenger

With the timespan set, it would be impossible for him to wipe out his knowledge of both Dynamis and space travel unless all of these things occurred while Emet-Selch was present, which is contradicted by the fact Meteion has already been in existence prior to Emet-Selch's arrival. This based on her constitution paired with her ability to traverse space, and solidifies Hermes' knowledge of these fields prior to the events in Elpis. And given the timeframe Kairos affects, the claim memories/knowledge pertaining to those two fields was affected by the invocation of Kairos cannot be substantiated outside of someone inventing/headcanoning those effects.

As such, I am unable to view things from the standpoint you have presented them as they are contradictory to how the story portrays events. You have directly contradicted yourself with your argument via inventing/headcanoning information and presenting it as fact while maintaining a stance where people have an obligation to follow restrictions based on previous storytelling. In addition, to enforce rules on individuals for how people interpret events in the story while, at the same time, failing to abide by that selfsame standard is extremely hypocritical. I am relatively lax on many things, particularly if they involve sections of story the writers openly state to be able to be subjected to interpretation on behalf of the player, but I do not tolerate misrepresentation of events that are clearly depicted in ways that leave no room for any other interpretation.

The fact that we reached an ending where humanity survived at all was, in all likelihood, a lot of blind luck in dodging the multitude of bad ends along the way.

To peddle back a bit to the whole timestream thing, in a convergence scenario, this would be a correct interpretation of events. In the instance of Divergence, particularly if the idea of Infinite Alternate Timelines/Universes is invoked, this is just one of many permutations of the timestreams that, based on invoking infinity, would allow for this to happen, it just so happens we are in that timestream, which is also a bit of luck just like how it would work in terms of convergence.

[Lyth]

...

No. We know that a divergent timeline did not occur. This is a thought experiment to determine if a divergent timeline was viable (i.e. one that does not result in the destruction of humanity).

I'm treating the timeline like a black box. Imagine a Radiant Historia style timeline map of the decision nodes. I don't know where all the individual decision nodes are or what choices were made at those nodes. I can't brute force a solution like Alexander can because I can't run tests of every possible outcome. All I can do is identify any constraints that would limit the 'form' of a viable solution. There may be additional constraints that I haven't identified that may restrict the range of viable solutions even further beyond what I've stated. These are entirely at the discretion of the writing team, should they ever elaborate further.

On the subject of space travel, Hermes cannot be directly used in any solution against Meteion. Hermes believes that the activation of Kairos was triggered by Meteion's shared consciousness becoming unstable, resulting in her destruction (Lv.87, Thou Must Live Die and Know). Venat elaborates further:

'As for Hermes... I think it unlikely he will create more entelechies. He poured much of himself into Meteion, and now that she and her sisters are gone - dissipated, in his mind - the grief must be unbearable. He will blame himself. He will believe that, had he never acknowledged his dissatisfaction with the world, then the Meteia would have never been born to suffer and die. The offer to join the Fourteen will be a welcome distraction, and one day hence, he will face the advent of the Final Days in the role of Fandaniel...' (Lv. 87, Caging the Messenger).

If you want Hermes to develop either space travel or entelechies further for you, you'd need to take him into your confidence and tell him what actually happened. We already know that leads to a bad end. As a result, any solutions which depend on Hermes developing these technologies further are non-viable. We also know that Hermes was miles ahead of his peers in his development in these fields, as I had established previously. As a result, you can't pin your bets on anyone else spontaneously developing those solutions in parallel. A means to forestall the Final Days is necessary. And we know the outcome of that.

Combined with the restrictions you've outlined it's hard to imagine any course of action that does not play directly into Meteion's hands, especially under the contextual constraints of time and the actions of others already in motion. It can be imagined, of course, but virtually all of the quest content, developer statements, and Encyclopaedia text supports that we're supposed to assume futility by the time the first two waves of sacrifices were made, the plan to sacrifice new life was decided, and civil war was at its climax.

I'm not saying the execution of the storytelling was clean, but I am saying that, when one knows where the developer's heads are at, rooting for one's counter-interpretation to pan out is - generally speaking - setting oneself up for disappointment.

Your final statement here is succinct and spot on. It's a bit like arguing with a DM/GM/storyteller in a pen and paper roleplaying game. They control the entire decision tree. We can propose whatever solutions that we like, but the downstream consequences of those decisions can render the proposed solutions non-viable.

[Iscah]

No. We know that a divergent timeline did not occur.

More exactly (and speculatively), if the timeline split in some way due to the information we gave Venat at Elpis, we are not part of that timeline and have no way to detect it, just like we have no direct evidence of G'raha's original timeline even though it must now be playing out parallel to ours. So for functional purposes, even if an alternate timeline did exist, it does not exist in any way that we need to consider it.

We can confirm that we are living in the same timeline that we visited in Elpis even before we go there because the after-effects of what happened there can be seen in the present day. Argos trusts us because he already met us; Hydaelyn is already aware that we are approaching the "confluence" where the time loop will be completed.

[ZavosEsperian]

No. We know that a divergent timeline did not occur.

see

These are entirely at the discretion of the writing team, should they ever elaborate further.

You have contradicted yourself again, which renders everything stated in between those two points in your argument moot. Due to how the writers are allowing people to take either approach in terms of timelines, it causes there to be a Schrödinger's cat-like paradox, where both states are able to be accepted as true from the outside observer's perspective. You cannot declaratively state one is true over the other without going against the writers’ intent at the moment. I am not inherently dismissive of converging timeline interpretations, the problem is that without clear clarification of the paradoxes that have to exist for a converging timeline to be true, it is extremely difficult to accept this interpretation in its current state. Divergence allows for the events to all play out as they have in the way they have been depicted without the need to deal with these paradoxes as they would not exist. That being said, I do not want to give myself carpal tunnel discussing something where the writers have clearly indicated it is up to your own interpretation, thus I will agree to disagree with your overall position.

Venat elaborates further: 'As for Hermes... I think it unlikely he will create more entelechies.

This statement does nothing to enhance your previous argument and arguably makes it worse. The quote used is based on Venat's opinion and, on top of that, uses language that is not entirely dismissive of the possibility of Hermes creating more entelechies as the term 'unlikely' is not 'never'. In addition, you have failed to refute any of the points in my former post in regards to negating your argument, thus I find the continuance of your argument with the points you are currently making otherwise to be strictly headcanon/personal opinion, as none of these things are directly stated inside of the story or any other source material. Do understand, this is not me arguing Hermes will ever end up doing what is deemed unlikely above, it is refuting the complete dismissal of that possibility as something that can still be viable.

More exactly (and speculatively), if the timeline split in some way due to the information we gave Venat at Elpis, we are not part of that timeline and have no way to detect it, just like we have no direct evidence of G'raha's original timeline even though it must now be playing out parallel to ours. So for functional purposes, even if an alternate timeline did exist, it does not exist in any way that we need to consider it.

From the perspective of the WoL, this is an accurate interpretation. Any viewpoint related to how the WoL interprets events will seem to them as being convergent, as there is no way for them to have an omniscient view where they can see how time streams twist and turn and potentially branch and parallel each other. In the case of G'Raha (Crystal Exarch) in particular, he did not cease to exist upon averting the 8th Umbral Calamity, which suggests his actions did not remove/overwrite the conditions required for him to exist, which is proof his original time stream is still intact and running parallel to our own, where our own time stream is diverged from his original time stream.

We can confirm that we are living in the same timeline that we visited in Elpis even before we go there because the after-effects of what happened there can be seen in the present day. Argos trusts us because he already met us; Hydaelyn is already aware that we are approaching the "confluence" where the time loop will be completed.

This reads like Yoshi-P's interpretation, which he has described as his own opinion/interpretation. This above statement can exist in all time stream types, and much like I argued above, due to how the writers intended to leave this open to interpretation, it creates a Schrödinger's cat-like paradox where both interpretations of how time travel works and how time streams work both exist at the same time, which causes a whole assortment of issues when discussing anything related to the time travel portions of EW. As I have indicated to Lyth above, I don't feel like developing carpal tunnel over this so I will agree to disagree with any approach that is dismissive of either of the two time stream types.

[Iscah]

Seeing as this has turned into the debate space for the Sundering again, I have to note that the EE3 page on alphabets (page 52) and renewed discussion of it in light of the "hypothetical" proto-alphabet popping up in Dawntrail, if it is accurate that both worlds' writing systems came from a common ancestor then that seems to be a strong point in favour of the Sundering not wiping out all knowledge even if precise memories were lost, and thus leans more towards "same people with weakened aether" over "reverted to primordial slime".

Edit to add: This seems to fit in conjunction with other elements leaning that way within FFXIV's actual canon, like Emet demonstrating the concept of sundering with an illusion of two identical Rynes, and that he makes no effort to horrify us with tales of people being physically reduced to something inhuman, and seems to imply that the worst of the effects was a loss of memory but not so much that they couldn't still draw an accurate and sequential history of the conflict.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

Seeing as this has turned into the debate space for the Sundering again, I have to note that the EE3 page on alphabets (page 52) and renewed discussion of it in light of the "hypothetical" proto-alphabet popping up in Dawntrail, if it is accurate that both worlds' writing systems came from a common ancestor then that seems to be a strong point in favour of the Sundering not wiping out all knowledge even if precise memories were lost, and thus leans more towards "same people with weakened aether" over "reverted to primordial slime".

If they wish me to understand the Sundering as a nerf and not annihilation, then this shouldn't exist: https://youtu.be/YC0U_aTv0EI?si=RtpFmgcB6u09PZwi&t=244

What Emet-Selch saw was malformed creatures incapable of speech when he comes from a species that can understand any language due to knowing the intent of your soul. Their intelligence was reduced 13/14ths. A person with an IQ of 100 would have an IQ of 7. A chimp has an IQ of 20-25. What they were reduced to was something he could no longer recognize as a person.

ETA: Based on my understanding of the Sundering, the Ascians would have found 14 copies of their world. Which meant that the cities and books would all still be there. And beings that looked like the people they knew would also be there. But those beings wouldn't have the comprehension necessary to maintain the cities and would die of old age before the Ascians could even come up with a plan. "They die and die and die." So I wouldn't be surprised if the different writing systems all evolved from a single source as the books would just be sitting there...but without anyone knowing what a book was or how to read...

The more I think of it, the more horrified I am. And in this case, my horror isn't for the people she did this to, but for those she left to witness it. To labor for thousands of years, going crazy, as they attempted to restore their people. And she put them in this position knowing they'd never succeed...

ETA2: And now that this has started me thinking about it even more. Do you know what we call a world created by a god to make their inhabitants suffer? We call that hell. Sure in this case their hell is on par with our normal world, but it still holds true. We view heavens as worlds with no or less suffering and hells as worlds with more suffering. Which means not only did she set them up to go crazy watching their people die off and be replaced. They are now being recycled to endure the hell of her design over and over. A fate she got to opt out of.

But hey, she didn't destroy the books. Sure the people were too devolved to use the books for anything but toilet paper for a millennia, but she didn't destroy them...

[JepMZ]

Well yeah. Of course, the tempered thrall of Zodiark would think everyone else is less than a person and a husk. He's evil. The video is in his tempered scrambled brain's viewpoint. And he's being a hypocrite because his own people were also having a civil war and his own member council wanted the death of everybody for nothing before he got amnesia, so he shouldnt view himself as better than the generations to come, but you shouldn't expect that because he's tempered

[Lady_Silvermoon]

Well yeah. Of course, the tempered thrall of Zodiark would think everyone else is less than a person and a husk. He's evil. The video is in his tempered scrambled brain's viewpoint. And he's being a hypocrite because his own people were also having a civil war and his own member council wanted the death of everybody for nothing before he got amnesia, so he shouldnt view himself as better than the generations to come, but you shouldn't expect that because he's tempered

All data we have in game references the First Astral Era as being prehistoric, so no, it wasn't that he was so brainwashed by a dark god he imagined the people reduced to 1/14th of their intelligence as animals. It was that she turned them into animals.

And even if she hadn't devolved the species. Even if the one and only thing she did was remove their immortality, she'd still be a mass murderer. If you reduce my lifespan from 70 years to five minutes, you are a murderer.

ETA: On Ultima Thul Emet-Selch says, "My ideals are inviolate, invincible."

If he was simply tempered not only would he have not been able to take actions to end his own life, like telling the WoL where to find him after kidnapping G'raha, which his Elpis self recognized as a suicide attempt, he also wouldn't have stood there long after Zodiark was dead, say, "I regret nothing." Refuse Hydaelyn's apology by being resurrected and turn around and go right back to the aetherial sea.

Even after all is said and done, he refuses to believe the salvation of the star HAD to be bought with the blood of his people. And I believe that too. Hydaelyn was a sociopath. That is the only way she could have done half the things she did. My sense of empathy would never allow me to amass the pile of bodies she did no matter the reward.

At least Emet-Selch has the defense that what we were turned into wasn't human and he was trying to put us back together so that we were people again. Even though I'm sure that excuse got harder and harder as time passed and we re-evolved.

But Hydaelyn looked at a world of people just as human and she was and thought, "Yeah, I should kill them all and assume complete control of their world." That action passed the "morally correct" sniff test for her. And for anyone who tries to argue it was transformation, not murder, well, she knew the Ascians would kill her "transformed" children in droves and set them free to perform that duty for her. So...still the most villainous character in the FF14 universe. Thordan? Pfft, he wanted to bring an end to war, Hydaelyn wanted to make more wars. Nidhogg? He actually left Ishgard standing and gave them a chance to come over to his side. She killed all her allies. Athena? Failed Hydaelyn, get gud scrub. The Ascians. Literal pawns. They labored for 12k years in an attempt to repair what she destroyed only to discover she was just using them to up her kill count.

But hey, Answers, am I right?

ETA2: Also the Lopporrits explain that tempering was something added to the magic when the Ascians taught it to us and it's possible to create a primal without being tempered. And that with a being as powerful as Zodiark you might feel a tug. That does not sound like someone who was so brainwashed he couldn't judge people who couldn't form words anymore or became part cat to fill the gaps left in their genetic code were in need of rejoining. And Venat attempting to "stop" Zodiark's creation really isn't an act of trying to help because without informing them of the real problem, if they agreed with her and didn't summon him they would have all died in the Final Days. She needed to create discord over Zodiark so that she'd have the excuse necessary for people to sac themselves to make her a god. If she really wanted a solution besides Zodiark, she would have told them what the problem was, but she didn't. With the one and only person with knowledge of the future, she set them up to suffer and die every step of the way. People assume she tried to do good because they are assuming she's a good person and are working backwards. But her primary concern was survival and she believed the only way for her familiars to survive was if they got good at enduring suffering, which meant that every step of the way increased suffering was her goal, not decreased suffering.

[Anonymoose]

If he was simply tempered not only would he have not been able to take actions to end his own life, like telling the WoL where to find him after kidnapping G'raha, which his Elpis self recognized as a suicide attempt, he also wouldn't have stood there long after Zodiark was dead, say, "I regret nothing." Refuse Hydaelyn's apology by being resurrected and turn around and go right back to the aetherial sea.

Even after all is said and done, he refuses to believe the salvation of the star HAD to be bought with the blood of his people. And I believe that too. Hydaelyn was a sociopath.

There's plenty of room to interpret the story in different ways and find flaws in the presentation without giving selective (in)attention to certain lines to gild the lily, imho.
(Maybe that's a silly sentiment in the "What lore do you ignore?" thread, though, lol.)

Hades both stands by his dedication to his people and admits that he never would have succeeded. (Twice accepting his defeat as valid in just Ultima Thule.) At the same time that he says he has no desire to live as Hades when the world he loved is gone and will never return, he also - after being reminded of the true threat beyond the stars and seeing you on the cusp of victory over it - finally accepts the ancients and the sundered as one humanity with one voice, and looks forward to returning to see the world you have won for life (that is, as a mortal). (Hythlodaeus extends this to "I hope we meet again in that life!" but Hades grumbles at that one.)

CITATION 1

So, here I am, Venat. I suppose you needed me to tie it all together, these frayed threads of our history─but knowing you, I suspect there's a joke in it too. Oh yes, I can imagine you gloating over my forgetfulness. Were I feeling charitable, I might assume you had left room for the possibility of this outcome. Still, you must be commended. Our methods would not have brought mankind this far. And so, as a show of respect to the last of us, I make this declaration. You will not end our journey! That is our answer! The answer of all lives of Etheirys, past and present!

Here's the Japanese, as well, as sometimes people suspect they might be different:

ヴェーネス、あの負けず嫌いめ。私をこの時代まで残しておいたのは、歴史を繋ぐためか、終末の真相を忘れていたことへの当てつけか……。
Venat, you always did hate to lose... Why am I still here? To ensure history connects properly? Or did you just want me to remember the true face of the apocalypse...?

至極好意的に解釈するのならば、こんなオチが生じる可能性を残したのだろうが。
If I were to afford you an supremely generous interpretation, I suppose I left myself open to this punchline.

何にせよ、その程度で掌を返すほど、私の人生は軽くなかった。礼などくれてやるものか。
But my existence has not been so easy that I will change my mind for that. You'll get no thanks from me.

……しかし、人をここに至らせたこと。この結末は、確かに私たちのやり方では掴み得なかったものだ。
...But that it has brought humanity to this point. We would never have grasped this result with our methods.

ならば賛辞と、最後の旧き人への手向けとして、口上のひとつくらいは垂れてやろう……！
So that being the case, as a compliment and final gesture to the last of us, I deliver this message...!

終焉を謳うものよ、私たちはお前によって終わらない！
You who sing of the end, we will not end here!

それが、あの星の過去に生き、今を生きる者からの答えだ……！
From the lips of one who lived in both the worlds of the past and present, this is our answer!

And the French for this one, too, since it's even more explicit:

Venat a toujours eu trop de suite dans les idées. M'aurait-elle épargné pour faire de moi la clef de voûte de son pont à travers les âges? À moins que ce ne soit un reproche voilé, ma punition pour avoir oublié bien malgré moi la cause de l'apocalypse...
Venat always was single-minded... But would she really have spared me to make me the keystone upholding her bridge through the ages? Unless this is a veiled reproach... My punishment for having forgotten the cause of the apocalypse despite myself...

Quoique, si je n'étais pas mauvaise langue, je dirais qu'elle a simplement cherché à orchestrer cet ultime coup de théâtre...
Although, if I was free to give a generous interpretation, I would say that she deliberately orchestrated this final little plot twist...

Si elle s'attend à des remerciements, elle sera bien mal servie. Ma vie ne fut pas un long fleuve tranquille, et ce revirement de cœur n'y changera rien.
If she expects me to be grateful, she will be sorely disappointed. My life was no long, tranquil river, and this change of heart affects that not one bit.

Je dois néanmoins lui reconnaître un certain don d'entremetteuse. Ce n'est pas avec nos méthodes qu'un être humain serait parvenu à mettre les pieds ici.
Nevertheless I must recognize in her a certain...gift as a matchmaker. It is not with our methods that humanity ever would have managed to set foot here.

Soit. En guise d'éloges à Venat, et d'ultime offrande à l'humanité originelle, je peux bien me fendre d'un préambule!
That is to say... By way of praise/eulogy to Venat, and as a final offering to the original humanity, I can well provide a preamble!

Chantre de l'anéantissement, nous ne serons pas défaits par tes vœux funestes!
Singer of annihilation, you will not be our undoing!

Telle est la parole des peuples de jadis et d'aujourd'hu! La réponse qu'ils t'opposent en chœur!
These are the words of the people of the past and the present, the answer we give you as a single choir!

CITATION 2

The encore is finished, and I will not suffer myself to live again by Hydaelyn's magick. But more than that, the future you seek is not the past we loved. That is why we fought. And why I lost. But though you defeated me, my ideals are inviolate. Invincible. Spare me your pity. I have no use for it. If you would do something for me─save our star. See this tale to a triumphant conclusion, and with elation in your hearts, bid the final curtain fall. Only then may it rise again and a new tale begin─with new parts for all to play.

ハイデリンの術に生かされるなど、願い下げだからな。
I have no desire to be sustained by Hydaelyn's power.

……何より、お前たちが進む未来は、私の愛した過去じゃない。だからこそお前たちと本気で、命を懸けて戦ったんだ。
...After all, the future on the horizon is not the past I so dearly loved. That's why I fought you. Fought with everything I had.

その結果ならば、敗北であれ、覆すものか。私が今の私であるかぎり、この想いは砕けない。
Would I change that, knowing it ends in defeat? Never. As long as I am who I am, my sentiments will never be broken.

間違っても哀れんでくれるなよ。お前たちに望むことがあるとすれば、あの忌々しい終末を打ち払うことだけだ。
Do not pity me for my mistakes. I have but one wish - stop this damned apocalypse.

そして勝鬨を喝采に代え、万感の想いとともに、幕を下ろせ。
See the sounds of triumphant battle through to thunderous applause and - with all your heart and soul - bring the curtain down.

それでこそ、次の公演が始められるのだからな。新たな舞台と新たな役で……お前たちも、私たちも。
Only then can a new performance begin. A new stage, with new roles. For you... and for us, too.

Personally, I find it very difficult to reconcile these lines and that tone with some of the perspectives people assign to him. Especially without removing half of the meaning, "Remember us," was supposed to convey. But, again, I'm the kind of person to accept the intent and critique the execution.

Also the Lopporrits explain that tempering was something added to the magic when the Ascians taught it to us and it's possible to create a primal without being tempered. And that with a being as powerful as Zodiark you might feel a tug.

This one however appears to just be sarcasm on the part of Livingway which often gets mistaken for being sincere. The "little tug" appears to be an English-only under-exaggeration akin to the "teeny-tiny toy boat". All 3 other language just say, "Well if it was Zodiark, you'd still be tempered, of course, but it's not, so you won't."

CITATION

In contrast, our creation magicks─the original and the best, accept no substitutes─don't incorporate any of that rubbish, so there's no risk of tempering. I mean, if the being was on the scale of Zodiark, you might feel a little “tug”...but I think we'll be safe enough.

けれど本来の創造魔法に、その概念はありません。さすがにゾディアーク級を創れば引っ張られるでしょうが、今回の規模であれば、ご心配には及ばないかと。
However, original creative magic does not have that concept. Of course, if we were to create something of Zodiark caliber, that would drag you in, but at this scale, I don't think there is any need to worry.

Fort heureusement, ce danger n'existe pas si l'on respecte les rituels originaux. À moins que l'on parle de puissantes entités comme Zordiarche, bien sûr, mais les nôtres seront bien plus modestes.
Fortunately, this danger does not exist if we respect the original rituals. Unless we're talking entities as powerful as Zodiark, of course, but ours will be much more modest.

Aber ihr könnt ganz unbesorgt sein. Die Schöpfungsmagie kommt ohne diesen gemeinen Zusatz zurecht. Außerdem beschwören wir ja keinen zweiten Zodiark, oder? Es besteht also kein Anlass zur Sorge, kann ich euch versichern. Es wird schon schiefgehen!
But you can set your worries aside. Creation magic can do without that nasty little addition. Besides, we're not summoning a second Zodiark, are we? So there is no need to worry, I can assure you.

(As always, corrections welcome on translations, I am by no means a fluent speaker of anything but English.)