What lore do you ignore?

[Carin-Eri]

Whilst I play(ed) them and mostly enjoyed them I have to view the Manderville side-quests as being somehow detached from reality. Because lets be honest, the Warrior of Light would be redundant if someone like Godbert, and his preposterously OP antics, was on-hand to point at any threat.

[WhiteArchmage]

Whilst I play(ed) them and mostly enjoyed them I have to view the Manderville side-quests as being somehow detached from reality. Because lets be honest, the Warrior of Light would be redundant if someone like Godbert, and his preposterously OP antics, was on-hand to point at any threat.

On this note: I actually love the headcanon that the Manderville quests are real, but what we actually play through is Nashu's fanfiction of the events, and she takes... *ahem* creative liberties to make something more awesome or more ridiculous. Like Watson writing Sherlock's adventures, but more comedic.

[Carin-Eri]

On this note: I actually love the headcanon that the Manderville quests are real, but what we actually play through is Nashu's fanfiction of the events, and she takes... *ahem* creative liberties to make something more awesome or more ridiculous. Like Watson writing Sherlock's adventures, but more comedic.

That would make a LOT more sense!

[Cleretic]

That would make a LOT more sense!

Agreed, this is way better than just a blanket 'nuh-uh'. Especially with Hildibrand, which I think brings a lot of interesting lore outside of the actual comedy, just throwing it all out leaves you missing a lot of neat stuff.

In fact I kinda wish it was real now, just because if it was, there would be a great potential hook of meeting the 'real' Hildibrand and learning, say, the real events around Brandihild.

[Ayche]

I have a more abstract view of the issue.
It was tempering not as magic, but emerging ideological mass hysteria. An idea so infectious and zealous, that everyone was caught in it as true believers out of their own free will.
Was is not straight up religious? If the saint of whatever religion you believed in stepped in your amids and performed miracles that saved your life, would you also not be converted to the cause?
I would say this makes their tempering even purer, even stronger than whatever the magic of the primals, ideas cannot be dispelled by porxies.

[Asetoni]

Yes, it is completely illogical. Because if tempering is something artifical then why did the ancients it to themself? Emet-Selch tells the player, that the summoners of Zodiark became tempered by him.


Cheers

I didn't really wanna bring up Zodiark because Livingway does lampshade it in the same scene by saying that he's powerful enough that it happens anyway. Honestly my annoyance with this part of the lore has less to do with it being illogical and moreso how hand-wavy it is and that seems to serve no meaningful purpose.

Hell, Asetoni pointed out that his own counterevidence is invalid: Phoenix, Susano, Enkidu, and other primals summoned completely without Ascian instruction didn't temper anybody. All of those scenarios happened in such freak accidents that I'm not terribly surprised that nobody managed to study that phenomena.

I was probably a little unclear in my original comment, but to be clear, I don't really dislike/ignore this part of the lore because it's nonsensical. It's very much possible to backwards-explain and handwave all the weird implications it has and come up with a cohesive whole ("Fandaniel simply rigged Anima after the fact", "Shiva/Ysayle never tried tempering so she didn't realize she couldn't do it", "the Bozja queen was somehow connected to the Ascians and we just never heard about it"). I wouldn't bring it up in a plotholes discussion.

My reason for choosing to ignore this part of the lore is because it's dropped so flippantly despite having insanely far-reaching implications, for what seems to so far just amount to a 1.0 reference. With how much effort there clearly is put into Primal lore and with how cohesive it is thematically, this just sticks out like a sore thumb. I of course don't have access to the writers' heads here, but it just feels like so little thought went into it, so I will also give it very little consideration myself.

[Cleretic]

My reason for choosing to ignore this part of the lore is because it's dropped so flippantly despite having insanely far-reaching implications, for what seems to so far just amount to a 1.0 reference. With how much effort there clearly is put into Primal lore and with how cohesive it is thematically, this just sticks out like a sore thumb. I of course don't have access to the writers' heads here, but it just feels like so little thought went into it, so I will also give it very little consideration myself.

Why do you think it's a 1.0 reference?

[RyuDragnier]

Why do you think it's a 1.0 reference?

I think he means the scene where they're powering the Ragnarok.

[Cleretic]

I think he means the scene where they're powering the Ragnarok.

I guess that makes sense? I was racking my brain and I was reasonably sure that tempering wasn't even in 1.0, or at least wasn't a major element since primals themselves weren't a big thing, so I figured it couldn't be that.

I think it's reductive to just call that scene 'a 1.0 reference' and that's all, because that implies that it's all that is. That scene is a huge part of what makes that finale of Endwalker work, you cut that out and you lose something huge: the oppressed and marginalized tribes actually contributing in a real, meaningful way to a better tomorrow. You lose that and they basically only get to exist as antagonists and victims, this lets them be active and positive agents. That scene is absolutely worth having, and if that requires some extra lore that also doesn't actually negate or contradict any previous events, then so be it.

...Or you could just completely ignore it as the thread's nominally about, and I can't really stop you. But if your reason for doing so is in fact purely 'I don't think this fits into the lore', I think it's perfectly valid to point out that it very clearly does.

[Magikazam]

I didn't really wanna bring up Zodiark because Livingway does lampshade it in the same scene by saying that he's powerful enough that it happens anyway. Honestly my annoyance with this part of the lore has less to do with it being illogical and moreso how hand-wavy it is and that seems to serve no meaningful purpose.




I was probably a little unclear in my original comment, but to be clear, I don't really dislike/ignore this part of the lore because it's nonsensical. It's very much possible to backwards-explain and handwave all the weird implications it has and come up with a cohesive whole ("Fandaniel simply rigged Anima after the fact", "Shiva/Ysayle never tried tempering so she didn't realize she couldn't do it", "the Bozja queen was somehow connected to the Ascians and we just never heard about it"). I wouldn't bring it up in a plotholes discussion.

My reason for choosing to ignore this part of the lore is because it's dropped so flippantly despite having insanely far-reaching implications, for what seems to so far just amount to a 1.0 reference. With how much effort there clearly is put into Primal lore and with how cohesive it is thematically, this just sticks out like a sore thumb. I of course don't have access to the writers' heads here, but it just feels like so little thought went into it, so I will also give it very little consideration myself.

IMO I feel the same. It really just feels like it diminishes all the lore about the beast tribe and their struggle to stop relying on primal, Loporite just comes out of nowhere and says ''Oh yea you just had to turn the temper part of the summoning spell off''.