Level 100 and Beyond

[Tiramu]

We already have a "post level cap" system of progression, it's called ilevel.

The thing class/job levels are actually used for is story progression. That week you spend after an expansion drops, requires you to gain exp to progress through the story.
Other than that, it just serves as a gating system for playing new classes/jobs at endgame.

So I don't see why a 'master level' style system should be such a bad idea.

From a story progression perspective, it would be identical. Master level 10 would basically be the same as level 110, but you still only 'see' level 100 as the max level.
This Master level could be player specific rather than class/job specific. This way, you might need to reach level 110 to finish the story, but you only need to reach level 100 to play a second job at endgame.

BIB 1: Its adding convolution for the sakes of convolution, and the levelling system isn't just for gating story content. It adds a sense of flow and progress marking as you progress through the MSQ, its used for expanding jobs at set points (new skills and abilities, job gauge expansions), power increments, and for gearing thresholds.


BIB 2:
Endgame is only endgame during the current expansion, when a new expansion releases we get a new endgame, the jobs have evolved, the mechanics have evolved and the endgame becomes more difficult. If reaching Lv100 gives you endgame access now and going forward, even if we are 4 expansions down the line, this starts to make little sense and just sounds like a way to avoid having to level jobs. Unless the endgame for new expansions will require master levels in which you've replaced an existing system for a new system that does exactly the same thing, ergo is pointless.

Anyway, the question shouldn't be how to change the levelling progression system at 100 but why change the system at all? Just keep the level cap increasing with each expansion, add new abilities and expand the job gauge as you go, basically as we do now. If we get button bloat, adjust the abilities in some fashion - something like I explained above.


Edit:
If your issue with increasing the level cap is that you don't want to level multiple jobs past 100 and just want to do future content on the job you've got. Then, for one, that wouldn't work anyway because the new endgame at each expansion needs to have a power increment, and for two just comes across as idle. FFXIV is one of the lowest effort games out there for levelling - its faster than many single player RPG's.

[Jeeqbit]

I don't like post-leveling systems much. It makes a game feel complicated when there is more than just level and gear.

I do agree with animation glamour. We don't need the base function to work differently but changing the animations could be a way to make eachother unique instead.

The problem with horizontal progression where your item level keeps increasing but your level doesn't, is that level acts as a way to dilute your stats so that it can grow all over again. Yes, that's right, leveling up makes you weaker. Any solution needs to find an alternative way to do that at the max level every 2 years.

[GTK0HLK]

see see them improving some of the Classes skills at lower level. Though it tends to be a few DPS atm, such as Monk Having its weaker skills in its new system.

I'll wait til we reach that point to give any opinion as we have no idea yet how they plan to run the next 10 years.<let alone what the Graphics Update EnTails..,

[Aniya_Estlihn]

They can just, you know, go above 100. It's just a number, it literally doesn't matter.
The bigger issue with leveling is how terrible classes are at lower levels. I'd much rather they address that than pointlessly stress over "what to do after 100" when its simple, go to 110, 120, 130, 140, etc.

[Jeeqbit]

They can just, you know, go above 100. It's just a number, it literally doesn't matter.

It matters because when you research the game to see if you want to play it and you see "level 120" it can put you off. 120 implies it will take a lot of time. The story already has that effect, but a lot of people don't understand just how long the story actually is until they are a quarter of the way in and still nowhere near the end. If they see a number like that, they may not even try the story in the first place.

[Tiramu]

It matters because when you research the game to see if you want to play it and you see "level 120" it can put you off. 120 implies it will take a lot of time. The story already has that effect, but a lot of people don't understand just how long the story actually is until they are a quarter of the way in and still nowhere near the end. If they see a number like that, they may not even try the story in the first place.

I think this is exaggerated. Other RPG's have much higher level caps, some Tales of games go all the way to 200 and take a lot of grind to get there. I think if base game + 6 or 7 expansions wouldn't put someone off, then I don't think a Lv110 or 120 level cap would - irrespective of story that number of expansions implies that there is a lot of content to work through. I'd even go as far as to assume that most people who see a game that has 6 or 7 expansions to expect and understand why the level cap is high.

Also, for people who might only be interested in the endgame, they can always buy the skip.


ETA:
I'd also add that new players are often funnelled towards preferential servers. I'm on Raiden and the amount of sprouts who haven't even reached Heavensward but have Lv90 jobs is crazy. We have several in our FC. The EXP buff is so strong that if you're levelling one job, doing your job quests and consistently buggering about with a even a small amount of side content (like, your hunting log and random blue quests, maybe a few roulettes or something. Not some serious grind) then you'll ding 90 before you've seen Ishgard. The point I'm making here is that while new players can underestimate how story dense FFXIV is, the story is far denser than the levelling experience.

[Kacho_Nacho]

They can just, you know, go above 100. It's just a number, it literally doesn't matter.
The bigger issue with leveling is how terrible classes are at lower levels. I'd much rather they address that than pointlessly stress over "what to do after 100" when its simple, go to 110, 120, 130, 140, etc.

I absolutely agree that S.E. needs to address how class/job abilities are given as you progress.

For example, running low level content as a healer is a wretched experience. The tank is trying to pull wall to wall, because people have no patience, and you only have a couple spells to keep the party alive.

Worrying about what to do level 100 and beyond is a waste of energy and time.

[Jeeqbit]

The EXP buff is so strong that if you're levelling one job, doing your job quests and consistently buggering about with a even a small amount of side content (like, your hunting log and random blue quests, maybe a few roulettes or something. Not some serious grind) then you'll ding 90 before you've seen Ishgard.

This isn't necessarily known by people who haven't tried the game yet though, and perceptions of the game alone are enough to deter them from trying it. I've seen a lot of people who didn't try the game earlier because of one perception or another and breaking down false perceptions from every angle is what any company should want to do to grow their product/service. Some people may inquire as to the speed of getting to that level and not be deterred, but some people might be deterred by it, for example someone looking to get to the endgame quickly probably isn't going to be encouraged by such a high level cap.

For example, running low level content as a healer is a wretched experience. The tank is trying to pull wall to wall, because people have no patience, and you only have a couple spells to keep the party alive.

Low level dungeons are one of the best healing experiences in the game for me because it makes me actually use my GCD heals and decide between DPS and healing in every moment. It's refreshing, because I almost never do that at higher levels, where I can DPS the entire time and never use the GCD for it.

I even felt that way as early as ARR, when I did my first dungeons as a conjurer to unlock paladin. The thrill of managing when to DPS and when to attack was part of the fun. I enjoy doing it so much that I kept doing it even after conjurer was level 15, but once I got to some higher level dungeons and discovered that at higher levels you can just apply a regen and attack, or use abilities, it just wasn't the same.

[RyuDragnier]

They can always pull a Eureka/Bozja and have the level "reset" without it being much of a reset at all. Just a new numbering scheme to reflect the new region we're in (I'd prefer if this was New World exclusive). It also allows them to adjust HP and everything only for those areas, without effecting anything prior to it because that new leveling and stat system is fully restricted to the new areas.

[Amenara]

I think this is exaggerated. Other RPG's have much higher level caps, some Tales of games go all the way to 200 and take a lot of grind to get there. I think if base game + 6 or 7 expansions wouldn't put someone off, then I don't think a Lv110 or 120 level cap would - irrespective of story that number of expansions implies that there is a lot of content to work through. I'd even go as far as to assume that most people who see a game that has 6 or 7 expansions to expect and understand why the level cap is high.

The easy example I would give to counter you is WoW. They went to 120 and said, this is daunting for new players and takes way too much time to go through to get to the content that matters in WoW at least. FFXIV already has a reputation for how much time is required to go through the game to get to max level and I think there is a breaking point that we are coming up to where it just becomes untenable and is going to require a level squish and or story squish.