Deep dungeon for BLU only

[Kaurhz]

In the end, it's extra work they have to do in tuning the content to ensure that everything works as it should. They already do this for the main content. There's no real value in tuning all the DD content for BLU. You're talking about niche on top of niche and the end result is just speeding up the farming process if they even allow it.

Sure, it is extra work for them to do - It is equally a wasted opportunity, and a significant waste of initial development resources if they cannot even half-heartedly commit to BLU mage in any replayable capacity.

To put it into perspective, Once you have done the initial BLU mage log, a couple of extra carnival iterations, and the raids if that interests you, then what does BLU have beyond that scope? Nothing. There's absolutely no reason to ever touch it again until they elect to update it.

The end result is giving people an excuse to use the class beyond a one-off, and potentially for them to use it more than just once. It is not just a matter of simply speeding up the farming process. If they actually elected to commit to incorporating this class into a deep dungeon then it quite easily cascades and can have an impact on skill acquisition, and influence how they deal with the class fundamentally.

It has been 719 days since they've done absolutely anything with BLU Mage, and arguably considering the patch cycle it will have almost gone an entire expansion without having any update to it whatsoever - Now let me ask this; when they update it - How long do you think it'll be before people exhaust everything that Blue Mage has to offer? How long do you think it will have taken to plan and develop?

Don't get me wrong; I understand the point of extra work, but if we're being frank, the amount of development cost for the class itself probably doesn't justify the play value and length that people get out of it.

[Deveryn]

Sure, it is extra work for them to do - It is equally a wasted opportunity, and a significant waste of initial development resources if they cannot even half-heartedly commit to BLU mage in any replayable capacity.

To put it into perspective, Once you have done the initial BLU mage log, a couple of extra carnival iterations, and the raids if that interests you, then what does BLU have beyond that scope? Nothing. There's absolutely no reason to ever touch it again until they elect to update it.

The end result is giving people an excuse to use the class beyond a one-off, and potentially for them to use it more than just once. It is not just a matter of simply speeding up the farming process. If they actually elected to commit to incorporating this class into a deep dungeon then it quite easily cascades and can have an impact on skill acquisition, and influence how they deal with the class fundamentally.

It has been 719 days since they've done absolutely anything with BLU Mage, and arguably considering the patch cycle it will have almost gone an entire expansion without having any update to it whatsoever - Now let me ask this; when they update it - How long do you think it'll be before people exhaust everything that Blue Mage has to offer? How long do you think it will have taken to plan and develop?

Don't get me wrong; I understand the point of extra work, but if we're being frank, the amount of development cost for the class itself probably doesn't justify the play value and length that people get out of it.

There are other features that go that long without seeing an update. I don't see the difference.

[Kaurhz]

There are other features that go that long without seeing an update. I don't see the difference.

A combination of their development cost and the replay value of the content is the difference. A lot of features that don't routinely see an update typically have been iterated upon, be it from Doman Reconstruction into something like Island Sanctuary, or something like airships > submarines. Or, perhaps we can look at the deep dungeon itself generically speaking. Has not seen an iteration or expansion on it since SB, but this also has quite possibly the highest replay value of any piece of content currently implemented in the game.

Unless of course, you want to tell me about Gold Saucer attractions which have innate replay value, and something that is largely attributed to the fact that MGP is an exclusive currency for Gold Saucer attractions. On this note, need I might add that any currencies tied to Blue Mage can be gotten through other means, e.g., hunts.

Blue Mage was largely developed as being a solo class in mind, similarly, this is how it was advertised. They have done absolutely nothing to incentivize this beyond 1-2 turns of the carnival.

[Deveryn]

A combination of their development cost and the replay value of the content is the difference. A lot of features that don't routinely see an update typically have been iterated upon, be it from Doman Reconstruction into something like Island Sanctuary, or something like airships > submarines. Or, perhaps we can look at the deep dungeon itself generically speaking. Has not seen an iteration or expansion on it since SB, but this also has quite possibly the highest replay value of any piece of content currently implemented in the game.

Unless of course, you want to tell me about Gold Saucer attractions which have innate replay value, and something that is largely attributed to the fact that MGP is an exclusive currency for Gold Saucer attractions. On this note, need I might add that any currencies tied to Blue Mage can be gotten through other means, e.g., hunts.

Blue Mage was largely developed as being a solo class in mind, similarly, this is how it was advertised. They have done absolutely nothing to incentivize this beyond 1-2 turns of the carnival.

BLU has its place in the game for a variety of activities, whether it's farming for seals or clearing out dungeons. I made good use of it to get allied seals and poetics back when I needed more and I still run the content every so often to refresh my aetheryte ticket. The lack of updates is honestly a welcome thing for me. I don't want a ton of incentives. I've got plenty of other things I want to get done in game. BLU is something I'll do when I feel like screwing around a bit. As I'm writing this, I went to an S rank in Stormblood and got full credit on a kill.

btw: Counting days is a ridiculous way to look at things. This development cycle already goes longer than most games have with their expansion a year plan. Looking at each expansion as one should, BLU has seen substantial updates.

BLU was developed as a solo class and I believe the initial response was pretty bad. It was then tuned for dungeon content and started to become more fun and interesting, with the Stormblood update offering a ton of QoL for that content. It wasn't developed to do current content and it likely never will be. The balance required is too much extra work, when they're already working on existing balance while looking to add new jobs.

There was talk of a possible new mode of play for BLU. We'll see what happens with that.

[Kaurhz]

Snip.

But why would I farm for seals when I can do the exact same thing on a level 90 class solo? It takes barely any time to run through Ruby Sea and get everything I want for seals. Similarly, this is the case with hunts. I'm running hunts, and not only that they're multifaceted because you progress the relic simultaneously. - If I want poetics? Can just do Eureka or Bozja and get them handed to me like candy whilst making Gil. Everything that Blue Mage can do can be done outside of Blue Mage, and more efficiently.

Counting days was just a case in point that Blue Mage has gone a profuse amount of time without seeing a singular update. I would argue these updates are not as substantial as you might think. The single biggest update to Blue was the incorporation of raid-related achievements which are a 1-off, beyond that it's just so soul-less if you actually thrive for something that the class was originally designed and advertised for. The only solo-related thing they've ever done was implement Basic Instinct (and carnival) - This was fun for playing the 'how high can you go' with Final Sting.

Nothing has changed with it ultimately, bar the fact they've added in additional achievements for those that actually want to do content with the class. They could have equally added solo-related achievements and it would detract absolutely nothing from the design. - I do want to be absolutely clear in that I don't think it should do current-level content and nor would I ever want it to be such, as that would bind it by the same restrictions as traditional classes in the first place.

Being separate from all current-(max)level content is a good design choice, I do think. But they seem to think that this warrants nullifying it from a substantial amount of dated content. The thing to keep in mind with balancing is that in the case of Deep Dungeon, this would not be a continual thing to the same degree as everything else, just the initial balance to ensure that they cannot use abilities such as Ultravibration, Missile or Tail Screw, for example. - I'll be spitballing here, but do you have any idea how people have requested or desired BLU to function in the deep dungeon?

[Slayer25c]

No, I'd much rather Blue Mage be updated to become a full job than to continue tacking on temporary fixes for what is essentially a dead-end class.

Blue mage will never be a full job so keep living that dream

[Deveryn]

Being separate from all current-(max)level content is a good design choice, I do think. But they seem to think that this warrants nullifying it from a substantial amount of dated content. The thing to keep in mind with balancing is that in the case of Deep Dungeon, this would not be a continual thing to the same degree as everything else, just the initial balance to ensure that they cannot use abilities such as Ultravibration, Missile or Tail Screw, for example. - I'll be spitballing here, but do you have any idea how people have requested or desired BLU to function in the deep dungeon?

The content BLU is restricted from isn't at all dated and still challenges people.

No one ever seems to say how they want BLU to function in DD, just that they want it to function there and they think that not being able to earn achievements will make everything okay with people. (Like right here, all you're doing is talking about how long it's been since they've done anything. Meanwhile, they're a couple months away from showing us what it is they've been working on.) They have no consideration for what it would take for them to get it functioning there AND remain a challenge. Some will say, "oh, just make another version of it." That's horribly inefficient. It doesn't matter what skills they restrict. 1: they still have to go in and set all those conditions 2: It'll still be a faceroll

DD was meant to be an alternate leveling path and provide a different kind of challenge to players. BLU already has its own challenges. Going into DD and places like Bozja does nothing but give people an easy and cheesy win. You're not fooling me and you're not fooling the devs.

Everything that Blue Mage can do can be done outside of Blue Mage, and more efficiently.

That's actually false.

[Amenara]

DD was meant to be an alternate leveling path and provide a different kind of challenge to players. BLU already has its own challenges. Going into DD and places like Bozja does nothing but give people an easy and cheesy win. You're not fooling me and you're not fooling the devs.

So give it a different achievement for doing it as BLU if we want to maintain the "integrity" of doing it on a real job? Instead of assuming everyone wants to cheese the game maybe people just want more reasons to play BLU outside of the update to get it up to the previous expansions level cap and maybe reinvigorate a job that barely has any play. I'd love for Masked Carnivale to be something SE remembers exists as the fights were inventive and encouraged thinking outside the box with how you approached the fights and which spells to set for them.

[Kaurhz]

Snip.

The only form of the challenge presented within Blue Mage is the raids, which are tied exclusively to group-based content, in terms of solo-related content we have nigh on nothing that presents a challenge. We get 2 hours of leveling content, and then if the game is feeling generous enough, an additional 15 minutes on Carnival-related content.

I can write you a feature-length dissertation as to how I would like to see BLU function in a deep dungeon, but alas given your closing statement I could hardly see you giving this warranted attention beyond thinking that what people advocating for is an easy win. That being said, our purpose is to present ideas, and the purpose of the developers is to design the content and how it would function.

I don't think another version of it is warranted, and equally, I do not think allowing BLU in there is an instant easy win. There's only a core set of abilities that would ultimately undermine the difficulty of PotD. If you take these away I would argue that it wouldn't be too entirely different from a slightly more powerful class. - If you cannot perpetually lock a monster behind Paralysis or Deep Freeze, then they're still going to hurt you, and quite badly need I might add, especially on the higher floors. Further, you actually have a level of thinking needing to take into account that many of the BLU spells are AoE related. Surpanakha when used at an inopportune moment is the equivalent of a death sentence.

Many of the things they would need to do, to make sure BLU is toned appropriately is something they have already implemented in the game, and quite extensively, need I might add. Not every monster is vulnerable to Deep Freeze, similarly, monsters vulnerable to it aren't necessarily also vulnerable to Ultravibration. This is the case with monsters both in dungeons and out in the open world. Similarly the case with missile.

That they were designed for different things, and purposes at separate times should not preclude the content from being interwoven in some fashion. So what if PotD was designed exclusively for leveling, and to present some form of challenge on the higher floors? This does not mean that this should be all the content amounts to, and similarly, the inclusion of Blue Mage doesn't automatically nullify any form of challenge within said content.

Oh right, how could I forget the Moogle Treasure Trove event which deigns to appear every 6 months for 2 weeks. /s

[Curisu]

Let BLU enter PotD/HoH and Ultimates.
But also restrict the rewards he get.

Like, when a BLU is in the ultimate group, a clear does give no rewards. No achievement, no weapon, to prevent broken BLU cheese strats that would break the fight.
Full BLU clears could give a special hidden achievement.

Same for PotD/HoH. You can't use the Duty finder and only enter alone or with friends.
No solo title for BLU because it would be to easy to clear it. Maybe a special BLU Titel for a solo clear. (BLUcromancer)


And with these ideas I gave the BLU player's hundreds of hour's of gameplay while not effecting any other player.


Edit. Even Eureka/Bozja could be possible for BLU.
Just make the 1hit spell unusable and only allow him to use utility actions.