My take on the simplicity of healers and the healer problem

[Tint]

Everyone was so excited about SGE. When I saw abilities I thought...did they really just copy paste SCH into a new class and called it a day? They took the little smidge of innovation they could think to add to SCH and crammed it into SGE instead.

The healer role is doomed.

Didn't they did the same thing when they added AST back then? Just copy/pasted WHM and added the card system to it? >.>

[ASkellington]

Didn't they did the same thing when they added AST back then? Just copy/pasted WHM and added the card system to it? >.>

AST thankfully has branched out since and even back then it had Noct Sect. That said, yes it did and still does share the lv50 WHM kit. Literally just make ED 3min and it's a carbon copy of WHM with cards right now.

[VerdeLuck]

AST thankfully has branched out since and even back then it had Noct Sect. That said, yes it did and still does share the lv50 WHM kit. Literally just make ED 3min and it's a carbon copy of WHM with cards right now.

And somehow they manage to be unable to balance 2 almost identical skillsets without AST being WHM, but better every patch.

[Rilifane]

And somehow they manage to be unable to balance 2 almost identical skillsets without AST being WHM, but better every patch.

As long a they place so much emphasis on buff stacking and 2min burst meta, they never will.
Because the only way to make WHM (and SGE) competetive would be by giving it a proper burst but that would include adding buttons that deal damage instead of yet another generic oGCD heal nobody asked for. As long as they split healers between "11111" and "11111 but with a cool buff everyone loves you for", WHM and SGE will always fall behind in dps over the expansion and be the 2nd choice for groups that go for pushing dps unless really early into tier when people are happy to have some crafted gear. Give it 2-3 weeks and they're left in the dust. And putting Assize on 40s to align with 2min didn't fix it either. Consistent dps is just not competetive as long as we have this 2min burst meta but that's what all healers are. Having a Phlegma or an Assize doesn't change anything.

[VerdeLuck]

As long a they place so much emphasis on buff stacking and 2min burst meta, they never will.
Because the only way to make WHM (and SGE) competetive would be by giving it a proper burst but that would include adding buttons that deal damage instead of yet another generic oGCD heal nobody asked for. As long as they split healers between "11111" and "11111 but with a cool buff everyone loves you for", WHM and SGE will always fall behind in dps over the expansion and be the 2nd choice for groups that go for pushing dps unless really early into tier when people are happy to have some crafted gear. Give it 2-3 weeks and they're left in the dust. And putting Assize on 40s to align with 2min didn't fix it either. Consistent dps is just not competetive as long as we have this 2min burst meta but that's what all healers are. Having a Phlegma or an Assize doesn't change anything.

Then it seems like it's time to give WHM and SGE 2 minute buff skills so they can contribute to burst as well. AST and SCH being head and shoulders above the others becasue they have 2 minute burst, but also all the capabilities (if not more utility, shielding, and mit) seems like a bad way to balance the healers.

[Jamini]

Then it seems like it's time to give WHM and SGE 2 minute buff skills so they can contribute to burst as well. AST and SCH being head and shoulders above the others becasue they have 2 minute burst, but also all the capabilities (if not more utility, shielding, and mit) seems like a bad way to balance the healers.

I do want to bring this back up too because...honestly this isn't true. At least it's not for higher-end raids.

Looking at people who do parse (I do not. My client is completely incapable of running ACT. However I have plenty of logs thanks to people who do)... SGE and WHM contribution is legitimately right in line with AST and SCH contribution.

- Grey-parsing healers (below the 25th percentile of people who finish a particular fight) tend to favor WHM and SGE by a few hundred DPS in overall contribution.
- Green-blue parsing healers (25th to 75th percentile) are literally almost dead even. At the 35th and 34th percentile SCH and WHM literally are within eighty dps overall contribution. In one parse between myself and a WHM where we were 34th and 35th equally... the difference in our DPS was 1.4% between ourselves, and literally 0.1% difference over the course of the entire fight.
- Purple and higher parsed healers very slightly favors the buff classes. The very highest parse on P6S has a difference of 324 between their WHM and SCH. A difference of 4% at the absolute pinnacle of play, and a grand difference of 0.4% in the overall fight.

Less than a single percentage point of your group's damage is not "head and shoulders". It's a drop in the bucket that literally only matters if you are intentionally running for a high score.

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I will also point out that SGE + SCH groups have significant trouble with P8S2 this tier. That fight in particular has a ton of healing that needs to be pumped out quickly, and it can be difficult without a very detailed plan to properly heal and mit through those hits.

[VerdeLuck]

I do want to bring this back up too because...honestly this isn't true. At least it's not for higher-end raids.

Looking at people who do parse (I do not. My client is completely incapable of running ACT. However I have plenty of logs thanks to people who do)... SGE and WHM contribution is legitimately right in line with AST and SCH contribution.

- Grey-parsing healers (below the 25th percentile of people who finish a particular fight) tend to favor WHM and SGE by a few hundred DPS in overall contribution.
- Green-blue parsing healers (25th to 75th percentile) are literally almost dead even. At the 35th and 34th percentile SCH and WHM literally are within eighty dps overall contribution. In one parse between myself and a WHM where we were 34th and 35th equally... the difference in our DPS was 1.4% between ourselves, and literally 0.1% difference over the course of the entire fight.
- Purple and higher parsed healers very slightly favors the buff classes. The very highest parse on P6S has a difference of 324 between their WHM and SCH. A difference of 4% at the absolute pinnacle of play, and a grand difference of 0.4% in the overall fight.

Less than a single percentage point of your group's damage is not "head and shoulders". It's a drop in the bucket that literally only matters if you are intentionally running for a high score.

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I will also point out that SGE + SCH groups have significant trouble with P8S2 this tier. That fight in particular has a ton of healing that needs to be pumped out quickly, and it can be difficult without a very detailed plan to properly heal and mit through those hits.

That seems like a problem if SCH does 4% more DPS and also has more ultilty, mitigation,and benefit to the team than a WHM. WHM really only has high output GCD healing and spamming glare. It's utility is both extremely lacking to AST and SCH, and it does lower damage.
That doesn't seem quite right from a balance perspective. Not even to mention we just had a tier where AST was absolutely dominant because one of it's buttons was so good it just invalidated a mechanic and it was a must pick, directly bumping out one healer in particular.
Having better damage, better utility buttons, and more options for OGCD healing and mitigation.

AST could also solo heal DSR on patch 6.1 due to it's high damage contribution, high heals, and shield and mitigation buttons.

[Coatl]

Didn't they did the same thing when they added AST back then? Just copy/pasted WHM and added the card system to it? >.>

It's been about 8 years from that point in time, and HW was a bit spotty with it's class designs to say the least. The comparison should be against the other lv90 healers as they are now, not to lv60 AST as it was back then.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Didn't they did the same thing when they added AST back then? Just copy/pasted WHM and added the card system to it? >.>

Well, AST did have Nocturnal Sect, all the way until Endwalker release... They could sort of work as a replacement for either WHM or SCH, with the Card system added on. Diurnal Sect with the regens was always better, but it wasn't impossible to play AST as a shield healer.