Ban Dragoon and DRK from Frontline or At least Nerf Drg's LB

[BubblyBoar]

FL isn't balanced and will never be balanced. DRK+DRG combo can be countered and countering it can be countered. It's hard to deal with, but people WILL do it because they enjoy beating others that way. It was the same back when the 24 man premades were running around.



For those saying "just guard" I just laugh. There's like 3 different jobs that can rip you out of guard to make sure you take all that damage.


Is this combo an exploit? No. Is it fair? Kind of? Like I said, it can be countered and played around. Even teams rolling with BH can be beat. I've done it plenty of times without needing a premade party to do it. It's all able leading your alliance and understanding how the combo works. it is far from flawless and unbeatable.



Sure SE do something about it? It really depends on how it is fixed. Melees are a little too chunky right now. Especially jobs like DRG and NIN. MNK and RPR should keep what they have and SAM is iffy and mostly a noob killer. SE could do something if it becomes a big enough problem.


For now, I suggest putting together a strategy to counter the combo. There are multiple that work well and don't require you to have a group of 4 to queue with. It really just depends on the job you play because some do it better than others. What's most important is that you alert your alliance and make sure they understand what the other is trying to do to them. But most people don't want to take that kind of leadership. They rather just keep dying and asking SE to change it on the forums.

[Dionysius]

Is this combo an exploit? No. Is it fair? Kind of? Like I said, it can be countered and played around.

Is this combo an exploit? Yes.
DRG's 5 yalm 30.000 LB potency was never intended to hit that many people, their 10 yalm 20.000 LB potency makes more sense. This is where DRK comes in that can pull everyone into the 5 yalm zone and with rng in play around 24 people, there will be always casualties no matter how well you try to tell people to gitgud.
Just a simple question, why other jobs can only deal around 18.000 but DRG allow for up to 30.000?

Is it fair? Yes, it can be countered just by playing DRG yourself. But that'd essentially asking people just to play these 2 jobs.

Trust me if you met this group in my DC, there is no strategy for countering them with the random groups that you got into.
You will just become fodders for them and waiting to lose, then came back here and tell me, yeah they need to nerf DRG.

Bro I guarantee you, if the west had the culture of following the leader and their burst macros the same people shitting on you right now would actually agree with you. lmao

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Is this combo an exploit? Yes.
DRG's 5 yalm 30.000 LB potency was never intended to hit that many people, their 10 yalm 20.000 LB potency makes more sense. This is where DRK comes in that can pull everyone into the 5 yalm zone and with rng in play around 24 people, there will be always casualties no matter how well you try to tell people to gitgud.
Just a simple question, why other jobs can only deal around 18.000 but DRG allow for up to 30.000?

Is it fair? Yes, it can be countered just by playing DRG yourself. But that'd essentially asking people just to play these 2 jobs.

Trust me if you met this group in my DC, there is no strategy for countering them with the random groups that you got into.
You will just become fodders for them and waiting to lose, then came back here and tell me, yeah they need to nerf DRG.

Sorry for the pet peeve, but DRG LB is "not" 30,000 in Frontline in 5y radius. It is 21000 vs ranged, 12000 vs melee. Even with Geirskogul up that is 26500 for ranged, 15000 vs melee. Only combining Geirskogul with Battle High 5 or other buffs in your party (Astrologian LB or Balance card, Bard Apex + Blast Arrow) does the amount actually reach obscene levels of 40,000+ vs ranged and 25,000+ vs melee.

At the point where you are engaging into a team with Battle High 5 stacked to every rank and order you may need to think about bringing Paladins for Phalanx, Sages for Mesotes or other possible defensives and hold Guard for such onslaughts.

I don't like how it currently works either and I personally still think that Limit Break should NOT charge outside of combat, let alone from doing nothing while in combat, but we gotta deal with it. They will never ever exclude specific jobs from playing their game. At most, they can shift around the damage and mitigation scaling from large-scale pvp.

[Dionysius]

Sorry for the pet peeve, but DRG LB is "not" 30,000 in Frontline in 5y radius. It is 21000 vs ranged, 12000 vs melee. Even with Geirskogul up that is 26500 for ranged, 15000 vs melee. Only combining Geirskogul with Battle High 5 or other buffs in your party (Astrologian LB or Balance card, Bard Apex + Blast Arrow) does the amount actually reach obscene levels of 40,000+ vs ranged and 25,000+ vs melee.

I didn't went into the nitty gritty of - dmg taken because I was comparing the pure potency with other jobs.
Not one person come up with the reason of almost twice dmg from DRG lb vs other jobs, this keeps derailing to other subjects.

[Ransu]

I didn't went into the nitty gritty of - dmg taken because I was comparing the pure potency with other jobs.
Not one person come up with the reason of almost twice dmg from DRG lb vs other jobs, this keeps derailing to other subjects.

Because LB's function differently for each job... I've gotten 10+ kills from SAM LB which does 24k potency on its own and one shots anyone with the debuff, chain killed people with nin LB, gotten mass kill feeds with smn LB etc... DRG isn't unique in its ability to gank a bunch of people in FL with its LB.

Again, its FL, who the hell cares about balance there?

[Nanne]

I didn't went into the nitty gritty of - dmg taken because I was comparing the pure potency with other jobs.
Not one person come up with the reason of almost twice dmg from DRG lb vs other jobs, this keeps derailing to other subjects.

Because it is one of the LB's that is probably one of the easier ones to avoid or to prepare against? You can press Guard against it or you can even just run away because it takes some time before they can manually land the LB early. And yes I know there are skills that can stop Guard but that is irrelevant DRG LB excels in being used after people waste their Guards or if you set it up as a team

[anna-steele]

Sorry for the pet peeve, but DRG LB is "not" 30,000 in Frontline in 5y radius. It is 21000 vs ranged, 12000 vs melee. Even with Geirskogul up that is 26500 for ranged, 15000 vs melee. Only combining Geirskogul with Battle High 5 or other buffs in your party (Astrologian LB or Balance card, Bard Apex + Blast Arrow) does the amount actually reach obscene levels of 40,000+ vs ranged and 25,000+ vs melee.

At the point where you are engaging into a team with Battle High 5 stacked to every rank and order you may need to think about bringing Paladins for Phalanx, Sages for Mesotes or other possible defensives and hold Guard for such onslaughts.

I don't like how it currently works either and I personally still think that Limit Break should NOT charge outside of combat, let alone from doing nothing while in combat, but we gotta deal with it. They will never ever exclude specific jobs from playing their game. At most, they can shift around the damage and mitigation scaling from large-scale pvp.

this was previously explained, by myself in fact, and was brushed off and ignored. i just hit a pack of people at BH1 with the dragoon thing and saw a bunch of numbers still starting with "1". so much for that "45k". strange to me that after the OP's 100000 games they have played, they have not figured out how BH works, or the new damage mitigations. or to not stand in a giant deathball

[BubblyBoar]

Is this combo an exploit? Yes.

You have some weird obscure definition of exploit. If 100 people on in that 5-yalm radius than the damage is absolutely intended. If not, the dev team would have put a cap on the number of people it can hit or had fall off after a certain number of targets just like other skills in the game have.



I don't know your D/C, but I've encountered the combo enough to know how to play against it. It's not unbeatable.

This is from another thread, but I still think it's valid.

"Frontlines seems to be defined by the DRK tactic, at least on OCE, and I don't see that as exactly healthy PVP balance that there is such a dominant tactic."

Currently, at least to me, the DRK tactic is so dominant, it defines how you play FL. Follow the DRK, support the DRK, that's how you increase you chances to win games.

I agree with you here. This single tactic shouldn't define the meta of the whole mode. There's a couple of things SE could do the fix it. I don't know if they will because FL balance is always wonky.


Anyone saying that FL isn't balance so you shouldn't care don't realize how dead a mode can get from abuse. And the more miserable it gets, the more likely SE is to kill the things people have fun with. This is why CC is solo queue and why FL parties are limited to 4 people and forced freelancer.

[EmilySummerstar]

The response is always "DRK isn't broken. You just have to plan battles around them." If you lag and it gets through then your whole team is wrecked by a one person catastrophe. More often than not, it gets through because initiating is faster than reacting. No other job gets that sort of treatment.

[Duskane]

I see a DRK running towards me with the horde i just back away
unless I'm PLD then can easily bait the onslaught then gap close to a team mate safely