Paladin needs to be overhauled

[RyanCousland]

I'll preface my issues with a disclosure that ive been pvp paladin main since shadowbringers and during that time was the best for PLD because of its use in providing cover or intervention as well as its aoe abilities, while I understand that the new changes caused for minimizing all jobs skills , this chang has drastically had an adverse affect on PLD.

To start the guardian skill has an animation lock which basically defeats the purpose and yet somehow puts the skill on cooldown, to further explain when an ally is below half their health and within reach of the skill and you activate it, guardian does not take affect till after the animation during that animation period your teammate is more than likely dead and guardian is on cooldown making it useless, also a majority of players dont seem to understand its effect because anytime i use it when its needed they run away.

Second PLD limit break takes way too long for what its worth and is easliy countered with chain stun or other LBs and still is the weakest

Third PLD does the least amount of damage out of the "Tanks" which has an adverse affect on its supposed healing potency & sustainability which is less than the others, if your doing less damage than your opponent then the healing factor is useless.

Total damage without LB based on 1 use per skill
PLD Total Damage: 46,000
GNB Total Damage: 60,000
DRK Total Damage: 52,000
WAR Total Damage: idc about WAR but its probably higher than PLD

Prior to 6.1 I was able to solo kill with pld skillset, now pld is running around with a butterknife and no magic

if this finds its way to whoever is in charge please fix these issues, id offer my solutions but getting these acknowledged is first.

[Elfidan]

I think you missed the point of the tank role in pvp. You're a distraction that's running interference for the dps and healer roles. PLD in particular is tuned to be more survivable to emphasis this role objective. If you want to do damage take the training wheels off and play dps.

[RyanCousland]

I think you missed the point of the tank role in pvp. You're a distraction that's running interference for the dps and healer roles. PLD in particular is tuned to be more survivable to emphasis this role objective. If you want to do damage take the training wheels off and play dps.

This is a Fallacy in which you werent paying attention to the previous points or perhaps theres a comprehension issue or maybe you dont or have never "tanked" in pvp

1: the roles after 6.1 are meaningless, if there were roles then i assume all tanks would effectively play the same but they dont so no point was missed all roles are basically DPS, which means the wheels have been off
2 : distraction is futile effort when the healing potency/sustainabilty is less than the damage output of your opponent this tactic was prevalent but again is no longer , and to say its more tuned to survival further illustrates the point you are missing which is the exact opposite,
3: didnt say i wanted to do more damage i was illustrating another flaw however even before 6.1 PLD was still pretty weak the issue is its skillset as a whole which is ineffective

lastly i understand trolling and the forums go hand in hand but at least have something conducive to the conversation

[Kathleen_]

I think you need to take a breath and learn how to play the new PLD.

[RyanCousland]

I think you need to take a breath and learn how to play the new PLD.

clearly another person who is ether trolling or not reading , exactly what part of the "ive been pld pvp main since shb" is hard to grasp.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

clearly another person who is ether trolling or not reading , exactly what part of the "ive been pld pvp main since shb" is hard to grasp.

First of all, it doesn't matter if you've been a pld pvp main since ShB, this is 6.1+ PvP. Your main skillset that transferred from it is tracking and paying attention to enemy cooldowns and the basics of syncing up a burst. Now to address your post though...

To start the guardian skill has an animation lock which basically defeats the purpose and yet somehow puts the skill on cooldown, to further explain when an ally is below half their health and within reach of the skill and you activate it, guardian does not take affect till after the animation during that animation period your teammate is more than likely dead and guardian is on cooldown making it useless, also a majority of players dont seem to understand its effect because anytime i use it when its needed they run away.

While I can undestand your pain about the animation lock, it comes from the movement component, which is a remedy to allies running out of the effective range by putting you close first (since the dash reaches further than the tether).

However, given how unique and dare I say BROKEN covering someone is, having a wind-up window before it goes into full effect is fair. No other job has the ability in PvP to essentially completely undo the work that came from expending multiple ressources (including crowd control abilities), especially when paired with Guard or Phalanx (Hallowed Ground).

Personal opinion - I think Cover is an effect that should not exist in PvP without serious downsides. They made the same mistake since Stormblood all over again by bringing it back.

Second PLD limit break takes way too long for what its worth and is easliy countered with chain stun or other LBs and still is the weakest

Your view on this surprises me since you are a pre-6.1 Paladin player. Phalanx is essentially Tank LB on steroids. Self-Hallowed, -50% on everyone around you and giving you access to the Blade of Valor combo is a fairly loaded effect. 120s is a very fair duration for a Limit Break this powerful on top of a kit that is already defensively loaded. The extension of the Confiteor-style effect and comboing off that is also a lot of value for your teammates who already take half damage in that window.

Third PLD does the least amount of damage out of the "Tanks" which has an adverse affect on its supposed healing potency & sustainability which is less than the others, if your doing less damage than your opponent then the healing factor is useless.

Total damage without LB based on 1 use per skill
PLD Total Damage: 46,000
GNB Total Damage: 60,000
DRK Total Damage: 52,000
WAR Total Damage: idc about WAR but its probably higher than PLD

Prior to 6.1 I was able to solo kill with pld skillset, now pld is running around with a butterknife and no magic

if this finds its way to whoever is in charge please fix these issues, id offer my solutions but getting these acknowledged is first.

While it is true that Paladin does not exactly do Dark Knight or Gunbreaker levels of damage, Paladin qualifies in other areas that the other tanks may lack.

1.) It has access to an OGCD stun on a short CD. Unlike WAR and GNB, your main damage is not tied to using it and unlike WAR, it has no animation lock and doesn't resposition you
2.) It has the most readily available and arguably strongest self defense in Holy Sheltron (%-mitigation is very strong) without restriction to a conditional buff (GNB Nebula)
3.) Cover alone makes this fair.

That said, I am perplexed about how you calculate your damage in that table. Whole combos? Hitting all optimal conditionals? Is Gunbreaker in DPS Junction or not? Additionally, none of those numbers actually highlight whether a tank focuses on sustained damage (Paladin, Dark Knight, GNB-Tank/Heal) or burst damage (Warrior, Dark Knight-ish, GNB-DPS) nor do they take into account if their effects help the whole team (Onslaught, Plunge). For reference, here is a burst of each tank (2 GCDs max):

PLD - Confiteor (8000) -> Intervene (2000) + Shield Bash (4000) -> Atonement (8000) -> Intervene (2000)
WAR - Primal Rend (8000-8800) -> Orogeny (10000-11000) -> Chaotic Cyclone (8000-8800) [add +5000 dmg depending on if and where Onslaught is placed]
DRK - Plunge (2000) + Shadowbringer (6000) -> Bloodspiller (6000-7600) -> Shadowbringer (6000) -> Bloodspiller (7600-9400)
GNB - Rough Divide (2000) -> Double Down (14400) -> Burststrike + Hypervelocity (12000) [add +12000 Blasting Zone and +2400 on Hypervelocity if DPS Junction]

Burst results:
PLD - 24000
WAR - 26000 without Onslaught, 31000-33600 with and depending on placement.
DRK - 27600 with Dark Arts: Shadowbringer (0HP spent), 31000-ish without
GNB - 28400 without DPS Junction, 42800 with DPS junction

These are the bursts, however the damage potential varies a lot on conditionals. Paladin can extend the multitude of 8000 dmg Atonements over a fair bit of time and has relatively high access to it while Warrior does minimal damage via combo outside of the burst. Dark Knight actually has more potential in sustained damage through multiple instances of Shadowbringer and cycling HP, while GNB damage potential can extend at the risk of overusing Rough Divide (which also serves as HEAL +20% for defensive purposes).

Conclusion - Paladin has very little room for a damage buff given their damage consistency over burst, mitigation and stun access. IF they decide to bring back +4 actions like from 5.05 to 5.1 again, then we could see the return of more damaging actions with variance.

[Valence]

I'll preface my issues with a disclosure that ive been pvp paladin main since shadowbringers and during that time was the best for PLD because of its use in providing cover or intervention as well as its aoe abilities, while I understand that the new changes caused for minimizing all jobs skills , this chang has drastically had an adverse affect on PLD.

To start the guardian skill has an animation lock which basically defeats the purpose and yet somehow puts the skill on cooldown, to further explain when an ally is below half their health and within reach of the skill and you activate it, guardian does not take affect till after the animation during that animation period your teammate is more than likely dead and guardian is on cooldown making it useless, also a majority of players dont seem to understand its effect because anytime i use it when its needed they run away.

Second PLD limit break takes way too long for what its worth and is easliy countered with chain stun or other LBs and still is the weakest

Third PLD does the least amount of damage out of the "Tanks" which has an adverse affect on its supposed healing potency & sustainability which is less than the others, if your doing less damage than your opponent then the healing factor is useless.

Total damage without LB based on 1 use per skill
PLD Total Damage: 46,000
GNB Total Damage: 60,000
DRK Total Damage: 52,000
WAR Total Damage: idc about WAR but its probably higher than PLD

Prior to 6.1 I was able to solo kill with pld skillset, now pld is running around with a butterknife and no magic

if this finds its way to whoever is in charge please fix these issues, id offer my solutions but getting these acknowledged is first.

Are you kidding? The LB of PLD in pvp is one of the strongest, game changing, table turning LBs of all. It takes time to charge because it's that monstrous. Not only it makes you invulnerable for 10s, but also allows you to make somebody else invulnerable as well, and gives an absolutely massive damage mitigation of 50%, which essentially will negate any kind of AoE LB the enemy team will pull. On top of it it still grants you a decent series of self healing AoEs, which can apply some decent pressure and heal you back from the grave if you used the LB at low health as well...

This is not a damage LB, and the job is the least impressive damage dealer in the game (although you can pull very respectable numbers on the damage tally tbh), because everything is literally focused on defense and party support. If you're looking for more damage and offense, other tanks are more tuned toward this than PLD...

On the animation delay, and this is not me actually defending them, they're an eyesore, but PLD is far from the only job suffering from this, but I do agree that it's especially egregious on guardian, however like Guard and whatnot, you have to be a little proactive with them, and not just rush at the last moment. If an ally drops that fast, maybe it's not your fault as well. You can't always save everybody.

[yaba_gabagool]

This is a Fallacy in which you werent paying attention to the previous points or perhaps theres a comprehension issue or maybe you dont or have never "tanked" in pvp

HaHa, smoked.

[Jettinson]

I don't get the LB complain? So what if you are stunned? You are giving your party a Tank LB worth of defense buff, add covering a partner so both PLD and the other are not taking damage, also able to make them pop a potion without being interrupted too.

Oh yeah it also has a 3 GCD combo with the same effect of Confiteor which means you can tag the enemy party and your team will be able to heal off.
It is damn powerful and even if you can't play PLD, the invulnerability itself is already strong enough for stalling

[Elfidan]

Trying to play fantasy rather than class and madge because small.