Paladin needs to be overhauled

[Valence]

my apologies, when you said "that is how the job is designed to perform the best." i assumed you meant from a position of authority or dev perspective/intent because it seems we're arguing 2 different subjects youre talking about stun(the skill) im talking about PLD as a whole.

Your comment "I'm saying that if a target is dropping low and tries to run away, it's a prime target for a stun, because odds are your team is pummeling them pretty hard right now. It doesn't even need coordination, the coordination comes from YOUR end, which is identifying such targets and punishing them for overcommitting by preventing them to escape and securing kills" isnt PLD exclusive any job can have this responsibility

And your point about this is? Is this not true? You stun the correct targets, and watch people die and kills get secured. What's the problem about that? Does it make shieldbash crap for some reason I can't fathom?

[RyanCousland]

Can you remind me what was the point again and what this is trying to show in specific? Your use of the job and what the job can do in this game seems pretty solid to me, even though that's just one game among many.

this is a minority case ill be putting another video to show the compare and contrast which is the majority of cases the hinders PLD as the supposed "support"
I.e. ppl running from cover and everything else explained in thread, currently trying to figure how to edit players name out tho ybh i should also do that with this video too

[RyanCousland]

And your point about this is? Is this not true? You stun the correct targets, and watch people die and kills get secured. What's the problem about that? Does it make shieldbash crap for some reason I can't fathom?

at what point did i say shield bash is crap? i think you might be getting something mixed up within this thread and thereby making the accusation of me dodging points that im not refuting.

my comment isnt about the skill its about your imposition that its PLD responsibility and the inference that this job was deliberately design for that purpose, again this a case of you discussing the skill and not the class as a whole

[RyanCousland]

Very first part I'm actually surprised you managed to survive charging in so deep like that. You're literally closing the door to any hope of retreating. Fortunately the opposite team seem to be crumbling pretty hard in terms of damage and skill gap... You used a good shieldbash to secure a kill on a DRG I think after, which is a good use of it. Later your team reaches the point and gets nuked out of the sky by 3 game changing LBs at the same time (SMN, BLM, WHM). Not much you could do but die. That's how stupidly overtuned LBs are when combined together.

Your team comes back and does mostly the same with a couple of LBs, albeit less fast because not the same combined punch, on top of securing the life of your team with phalanx and cover. Then you secure another kill on a fleeing BLM, good. Good use on bash again on stunning a GNB and killing him with the wind gusts.

Then you pretty much win because your team is literally crushing them.

retreating for who? me? correct me if im wrong but didnt you as well as so many other say if a PLD dies because the enemy wasted their resources, then thats a good thing?
i shield bashed the GNB at the beginning because theres no point in delaying any further other wise itd risk a 1v1 which is a waste oftime because PLD cant do that anymore.
to made sense to utilize my time and would be better to join the team.
The LB part may have been inevitable but i think if i were to go for the WHM it could have been manageable

[RajNish]

I want PLDs to be completely removed from pvp games. I'm kidding of course. So many losses were because in the enemy group there was a PLD with a head, and not with a pan.

And yes, I'm someone who hasn't played a PLD in PvP yet, but from what I see on the field, some PLDs can be a real pain in the ass. I can’t judge whether something needs to be fixed in their skills or not, but what came to me from the PLDs was very painful.

What I understood for sure is that this is tactically very important job, and PLD with his set can really change the outcome of the entire battle. Forgive me for being a little captain obvious here.

[RyanCousland]

I want PLDs to be completely removed from pvp games. I'm kidding of course. So many losses were because in the enemy group there was a PLD with a head, and not with a pan.

And yes, I'm someone who hasn't played a PLD in PvP yet, but from what I see on the field, some PLDs can be a real pain in the ass. I can’t judge whether something needs to be fixed in their skills or not, but what came to me from the PLDs was very painful.

What I understood for sure is that this is tactically very important job, and PLD with his set can really change the outcome of the entire battle. Forgive me for being a little captain obvious here.

youre absolutely right on all counts, because its tactical is one of the reasons why i love it but the major downside is it's skillset is too heavily reliant on team coordination/awareness or wutever you wanna call it in a mode that deliberately goes against that, if there were pre made v pre made que option i would not have started this but thats not the case and in case i havent made this clear im not asking for anything to be removed per say (even tho i think intervene should have a stun effect and replace shield bash with holy circle or take Reinhardt's suggestion and have confetti turn into HC after RAC but i digress) nor am i asking for potency buffs all im asking is for someone in charge to realistically look at PLD in the setting they put it in and ask Is this good for general use? is right to have a skill thats completely dependent on the participation of a potentially unknowing teammate? (also my suggestion for guardian is to give a residual effect of %10-20 damage reduction if the tether is broken within a 5s window) especially behind an animation lock, in my opinion theres too many cons vs the pros of PLD currently, this was not the case in SHB

[RajNish]

is right to have a skill thats completely dependent on the participation of a potentially unknowing teammate? (also my suggestion for guardian is to give a residual effect of %10-20 damage reduction if the tether is broken within a 5s window) especially behind an animation lock, in my opinion theres too many cons vs the pros of PLD currently, this was not the case in SHB

I can't judge because I haven't tried it at the moment. But let's be honest, a lot of jobs here have skills that depend on teamwork. Take shitty quick chat communication capabilities, stupid flooding, tunnel vision and get bingo. Different timing of LB Dancer and LB Dragoon, and losing, I can't count how many times I've seen this, the example is simple and straightforward. And I don't know if it's even possible to refine any skill taking into account the so-called "fool protection"...

And I confess that I am the one who first ran with the cover of a paladin for a thousand miles, because I was used to no one caring about me. I had to unlearn, I can imagine how strong the facepalm my co-players had. We cannot be responsible for the reflexes and mind of another player, but there seems to have been an opinion here that the cover, in principle, does not work as it should. I don't remember exactly, so I'm sorry too.

But I have a suspicion that the paladin can be improved in the future, since the developers have changed this work in pve, they can probably change / modify the pvp skills later.

And yes, I understand the tendency to compare pvp in 5.x and 6.x, in 5.x I loved to play SCH, but in 6.x I lost interest in that job almost completely. SCH has remained my main in pve, but in pvp I don’t even want to learn how to play this job, because I just don’t have fun, even though this class shines in good hands. So your dedication to PLD is even admirable.

[Valence]

correct me if im wrong but didnt you as well as so many other say if a PLD dies because the enemy wasted their resources, then thats a good thing?

No, I didn't. You're conflating me with other people, which is probably why everything seems so confused to me when reading your replies.