For those who struggle with group content

[JamieRose]

Ironically, I usually regard this as a severe source of player anxiety, rather than a means of mitigating it.

Because of the ability to sequester a group behind a clear being required, people feel - and not without some level of justification - that the only hope to do on-patch content is to be there for the patch drop and back burner everything else if necessary to focus on the 8-man hardmode instance as top priority. Otherwise, enough people hide behind Duty Complete that the chance of getting a group that's not hopeless from the outset plummets, and because that's been a thing for such a long time, I've noticed that the casual EX crowd from later in patch cycles that I remember from early Stormblood has thinned out a lot: apparently, most people that can't or won't early bird rush simply accept that it's not happening at all that patch and wait for the next gear tier (or even settle for unsync ... which is a useful feature for farming, but takes a lot of fun out of the initial clear).

Worse, the closer you get to a clear, the more anxious you get, because if the people you're practicing with get just that one more onze of progress lead on you, they're no longer available to you, they're behind the wall now and you're basically (especially the way XIV mechs work) kicked all the way back to Fresh Prog.

And yet, the player culture will defend this practice as a good idea. In fact, they will defend it to the point that unlike other MMOs, there's heavy social pressure on group leads not to make exceptions: if you take off Duty Complete to invite someone who doesn't have a clear, that's apparently puppy-kicking levels of evil. (In fact, in general, one feels like the social pressure is that even as a group lead, you barely have any authority to decide things for your group, but merely act as an agent of the community who is expected to keep things "standard" as if PUGs were a meta-guild rather than a hodgepodge of individual groups.)

I have critiqued this for many years and it doesn't seem to effect change though - it seems that once games' hiveminds are formed, there is no changing the culture (and people think that's a good thing too).

That's pretty well spot on, and another big reason I dropped out of savage raiding.

[FireMage]

Ironically, I usually regard this as a severe source of player anxiety, rather than a means of mitigating it.

Because of the ability to sequester a group behind a clear being required, people feel - and not without some level of justification - that the only hope to do on-patch content is to be there for the patch drop and back burner everything else if necessary to focus on the 8-man hardmode instance as top priority. Otherwise, enough people hide behind Duty Complete that the chance of getting a group that's not hopeless from the outset plummets, and because that's been a thing for such a long time, I've noticed that the casual EX crowd from later in patch cycles that I remember from early Stormblood has thinned out a lot: apparently, most people that can't or won't early bird rush simply accept that it's not happening at all that patch and wait for the next gear tier (or even settle for unsync ... which is a useful feature for farming, but takes a lot of fun out of the initial clear).

Worse, the closer you get to a clear, the more anxious you get, because if the people you're practicing with get just that one more onze of progress lead on you, they're no longer available to you, they're behind the wall now and you're basically (especially the way XIV mechs work) kicked all the way back to Fresh Prog.

And yet, the player culture will defend this practice as a good idea. In fact, they will defend it to the point that unlike other MMOs, there's heavy social pressure on group leads not to make exceptions: if you take off Duty Complete to invite someone who doesn't have a clear, that's apparently puppy-kicking levels of evil. (In fact, in general, one feels like the social pressure is that even as a group lead, you barely have any authority to decide things for your group, but merely act as an agent of the community who is expected to keep things "standard" as if PUGs were a meta-guild rather than a hodgepodge of individual groups.)

I have critiqued this for many years and it doesn't seem to effect change though - it seems that once games' hiveminds are formed, there is no changing the culture (and people think that's a good thing too).

And your critique has been and continues to be garbage

[Estecka]

Dude, what are you even doing in this thread. Cut them some slacks.

Ignore this guy, he's just looking to set the world on fire.

[seerstone]

i struggle finding a solid group to practice raiding with in general, i dont want to subject people to dealing with me for my first runs, even when i watch videos and educate myself on mechanics, who knows what will happen and i dont want anyone to get frustrated if theyve done the content more than i have. trying to build my fc for this reason.

[MegaOddly]

Ironically, I usually regard this as a severe source of player anxiety, rather than a means of mitigating it.

Because of the ability to sequester a group behind a clear being required, people feel - and not without some level of justification - that the only hope to do on-patch content is to be there for the patch drop and back burner everything else if necessary to focus on the 8-man hardmode instance as top priority. Otherwise, enough people hide behind Duty Complete that the chance of getting a group that's not hopeless from the outset plummets, and because that's been a thing for such a long time, I've noticed that the casual EX crowd from later in patch cycles that I remember from early Stormblood has thinned out a lot: apparently, most people that can't or won't early bird rush simply accept that it's not happening at all that patch and wait for the next gear tier (or even settle for unsync ... which is a useful feature for farming, but takes a lot of fun out of the initial clear).

Worse, the closer you get to a clear, the more anxious you get, because if the people you're practicing with get just that one more onze of progress lead on you, they're no longer available to you, they're behind the wall now and you're basically (especially the way XIV mechs work) kicked all the way back to Fresh Prog.

And yet, the player culture will defend this practice as a good idea. In fact, they will defend it to the point that unlike other MMOs, there's heavy social pressure on group leads not to make exceptions: if you take off Duty Complete to invite someone who doesn't have a clear, that's apparently puppy-kicking levels of evil. (In fact, in general, one feels like the social pressure is that even as a group lead, you barely have any authority to decide things for your group, but merely act as an agent of the community who is expected to keep things "standard" as if PUGs were a meta-guild rather than a hodgepodge of individual groups.)

I have critiqued this for many years and it doesn't seem to effect change though - it seems that once games' hiveminds are formed, there is no changing the culture (and people think that's a good thing too).

It's rare but people do still run the raids still with practicing tag in the lower tiers but they are more common on the weekly reset.

[Antharaes]

Thread has been helpful in identifying who to avoid

Thank the twelve, that works both ways....

[Ishe-P]

My feelings about group content in general are complicated and I often think about whether I am suited to play a game like this where group content is king. I love group content, I really do. However, I don't have the skill level or patience to tolerate the higher end stuff much longer these days. Scrubbing it up in PF being the prime example here. I know I'm not perfect, and probably hold the group back in myriad ways so this isn't me pointing fingers at anyone in particular. But when it takes 6+ hours and counting to clear some of these fights when I know I used to be more on the ball is a little disheartening, especially when I am left behind by those who are able to commit the time and skill to overcoming said content well ahead of me. A two-edge sword I guess, complicated by raids and ultimates having the strict coordination they do. So I guess to answer your questions, for now:

1. I try my best in group content. I use PF a lot, try to match my skill to whomever's looking. I'm often the problem though, especially when I start my current endgame run (this can't possibly be unusual for anyone in this position, I just think my lulls last longer than average).
2. I find that the MSQ and story beats are more than sufficient for my character. However, I personally dislike the story more with time. This isn't my character's story, it's a story someone wrote for my character, and so my character's place in it feels merely an afterthought.
3. I like getting achieve mints and clearing content. Although I can't do Everything™ at my skill level, there is plenty of stuff that I can chip away at in my free time, most importantly at my own pace without stepping on or inconveniencing anyone else, e.g. crafting. While grindy, getting them mints is still satisfying in its own way. I just wish some of them were less arbitrarily cruel.

[AwesomeJr44]

If you take off Duty Complete to invite someone who doesn't have a clear, that's apparently puppy-kicking levels of evil.

Question: As a party lead, why should I take a chance on someone who doesn't have a clear? Why should I risk ruining my reclear party by bringing in someone who probably isn't capable of clearing? (and if you're capable of clearing, you should be able to get one without needing a reclear party to carry you) That's not only unfair to me, that's unfair to the other 6 people who joined the PF expecting a reclear with people who know what they're doing. If you know the fight and you're capable of clearing, go earn a clear and then you're welcome to reclear with Duty Complete groups.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Question: As a party lead, why should I take a chance on someone who doesn't have a clear? Why should I risk ruining my reclear party by bringing in someone who probably isn't capable of clearing? (and if you're capable of clearing, you should be able to get one without needing a reclear party to carry you) That's not only unfair to me, that's unfair to the other 6 people who joined the PF expecting a reclear with people who know what they're doing. If you know the fight and you're capable of clearing, go earn a clear and then you're welcome to reclear with Duty Complete groups.

Because you can kick them out if they are clearly incapable of doing the fight in question.

Getting the first clear is often somewhat challenging because 99% of the players who can do the fights are entirely behind Duty Complete requirements after like the first week, or even earlier. So you have to get lucky to find 7 other people who can do the fight.

[AwesomeJr44]

Because you can kick them out if they are clearly incapable of doing the fight in question.

That wastes everyone else's time, and risks people leaving which forces me to start the recruiting process over. Again, why place take a chance on you being able to do it when you have no proof you being able to do it? Why would I owe you that chance when I can give it to someone with that has at least cleared once? Sure they can still be bad but they cleared at least once and that's at least once more than the person with no clear.

Getting the first clear is often somewhat challenging because 99% of the players who can do the fights are entirely behind Duty Complete requirements after like the first week, or even earlier. So you have to get lucky to find 7 other people who can do the fight.

If you don't have a clear and are capable of getting one, make your own PF if you can't find one that suits your needs. If you can't clear in the first or second week with other people people who don't have clears, maybe that says something about the quality of those without clears. (Thus justifying the use of 'Duty Complete' in reclear groups)

If you haven't cleared something once and hope for people who already have done so to join in (instead of new entrants like you), you expect a carry. Make of that what you will.

Exactly, and you could say the same about people who seek to join reclear groups because they can't clear with other people without clears. People just want a free carry. I did Asphodelos in party finder (and not even close to week 1/2 either) and when I wanted to prog or clear a fight, I made my own group and let whoever joined join.