Change SCH Dissipation

[ForsakenRoe]

Kera's technically better than Soil, IMO, since it's a buff applied to people, it isn't constrained by 'stand within this specific location'. Good for things where the team has to spread out kinda far, like you're not gonna get use out of Soil on Heavensfall Trio like you can with Kera, for example. Though on the flipside, you have to be more center to apply it, which isn't necessarily that much of an issue. Kardia's range is not the same as it's 'place Kardia on target' range, I'm pretty sure the healing can trigger as long as the Kardia'd target is within 100y, not the 30 of the Kardia cast. It definitely reaches across the entire arena. The downfall of Kardia is that if you can't hit the boss, you cant trigger the heal, but then you can just GCD heal since it's not losing you damage.

IDK why people compare Dissipation with Rhizo though. Rhizo's a scuffed Recitation. Both are 'Grants one use of stack spender', both are 90s CD, both are learned at level 74. Just that the way Recitation is implemented is better as it means a guaranteed crit, and it being 'next spender is free' means you don't risk overcap.

[Renathras]

And you are wrong because it is worth it to use Dissipation on cooldown.

- Embrace: Cure Potency 180. Recast 3s (longer if you are moving at all). Total potency of 1800 over the course of dissipation.
- A single Cast of Sacred Soil: Cure Potency 100. Total potency of 500 per target over the course of a single cast. (2000 in light parties, 4000 in full parties)
- One cast of Excognition is 800 potency. This is a 200 potency gain for a third of your lost embraces. And because you can target the heals, it comes out ahead
- One cast of Lustrate is 600 potency. This means even if you burn all of your gained Aetherflow on Lustrates, it's still not a loss because you can direct the heals and don't need to worry about losing faerie casts from her moving.

The thing is, we're not comparing AF abilities vs Embrace.

We're comparing AF abilities vs Embrace + Fey Illumination + Fey Blessing + Whispering Dawn + Aetherpact + Seraph + Seraphic Veil + Consolation x2

.

As to the second: I meant to show how other Healers' big CDs don't lock them out of their own abilities on use. SCH is the only one that has this issue.

Kera's technically better than Soil, IMO, since it's a buff applied to people, it isn't constrained by 'stand within this specific location'.

While there is some truth to this, it goes both ways. Soil's radius is pretty huge now. So for things like light party stacks on either side of the boss, a Soil centered on the boss can allow party members to be spread to either side and still benefit from it. If the SGE can run to the center and pop Kara real quick, it can do the same thing, but if it can't for some reason (P5S light party splits late in the fight where you have to split into the N/E S/W (or whatever you're party's doing) pockets, SGE can't do that. Likewise for the light party stacks in Ex5, the SGE's Kara may not hit both light parties. SCH can also use Soil at a distance, so if there's some mechanic where SCH gets a marker or something and has to run off to Narnia while the rest of the party stacks, SCH can easily throw a Soil at them from a distance (and place Eos near them) while SGE can't.

I'm not sure I'd say either is better, more that each works in different situations.

IDK why people compare Dissipation with Rhizo though. Rhizo's a scuffed Recitation. Both are 'Grants one use of stack spender', both are 90s CD, both are learned at level 74. Just that the way Recitation is implemented is better as it means a guaranteed crit, and it being 'next spender is free' means you don't risk overcap.

Probably because there's not really anything comparable to Dissipation on any of the other healers, so it's hard to find anything that really compares well to it.

[Jamini]

The thing is, we're not comparing AF abilities vs Embrace.

We're comparing AF abilities vs Embrace + Fey Illumination + Fey Blessing + Whispering Dawn + Aetherpact + Seraph + Seraphic Veil + Consolation x2

Cool, let's break it down again since you ignored what I posted last time.

1. Embrace - Aetherflow obtained is a net HPS gain in all situations, and better directed to boot.
2. Fey Illumination / Whispering Dawn - Very easy to just ...pop them before dissipation. The cooldown on both skills is longer than dissipation.
3. Aetherpact - Hot trash and could legitimately be fully removed from Scholar with minimal impact. There are all of two, three fights where it's useful as part of a mit plan, and it's slightly useful if people mess up and die (and they don't need an IMMEDIATE heal for a raidwide. If you need to heal someone for a raidwide then reci+excog or dissipation into excog is required to keep the rezzed person alive.)
4. Seraph (Consolation, Seraphic Veil are part of Seraph.) - On a two minute timer, and mostly preplanned or popped during heavy incoming damage. We need to... *GASP!*... actually plan around these parts of fights. You know, actually do our job as mitigation healers. And even then it's really NOT difficult to just hold dissiaption or hold seraph depending on the situation

The only thing that should be compared to the Aetherflow gain from dissipation is embrace, because nothing else should be needed during a dissipation windows. And if you do need them during that window You should have a mit plan in place an be using those abilities right before dissipation.

Probably because there's not really anything comparable to Dissipation on any of the other healers, so it's hard to find anything that really compares well to it.

Hey, maybe we shouldn't remove the few things that make the most homogenized jobs (healers) distinct?

Kera's technically better than Soil, IMO, since it's a buff applied to people, it isn't constrained by 'stand within this specific location'.

Each of them are situational. Soil is far better if you have a known safe zone you are running to or your healer cannot get themselves in the group due to mechanics. The fact that it isn't centered on you can be a massive boon.

Kara is better if you need to move a lot, or expect to be in the middle of the party.

[Renathras]

...

The reason we count those other things is because they can't bee used during Dissipation. It's that simple. It's "Dissipation OR these things". You also missed Fey Blessing, though I'm sure you'll say it's also meaningless or some sort.

Okay, tell me this smart guy; which other Healer has such a trade-off on their big CDs? Which one locks themselves out of part of their kit to use a given CD, and which CD is that?

[Jamini]

The reason we count those other things is because they can't bee used during Dissipation. It's that simple. It's "Dissipation OR these things". You also missed Fey Blessing, though I'm sure you'll say it's also meaningless or some sort.

You use them before or after as needed. It's really that simple.

Fey Blessing is wonderful, but it also can just be used outside of the Dissipation window. Even on cooldown you spend less than a sixth of a fight with your Faerie out.

You also forget that Seraph locks out Fae Blessing too.

Okay, tell me this smart guy; which other Healer has such a trade-off on their big CDs? Which one locks themselves out of part of their kit to use a given CD, and which CD is that?

AST. RNG determines if you get a melee buff or a ranged buff. Your cards do not alternate. Lord and Lady are also mutually exclusive and do different things.

Sage does. In Eukrasia. Admittedly it's not very long, but hitting Eukrasia locks you out of your basic attack until you spend it.

Sage does. Kerakchole and Taurochole do not stack the defense buffs.

Sage and Scholar do. Eukrasian Prognosis and Galvanize cannot be stacked.

Astrologeon does with Lightspeed. You must choose if you want to use it for your burst phase, or if you need it for mobility during tough mechanics. You cannot use it for both.


-----

Listen. I get it. You play Sage and you don't like how Scholar works. That's fine. Sage exists explicitly for people who want to play a mit healer and don't want to deal with the complexity and (thankfully mild) Jank that comes with SCH. I, and quite a few others, actually very much like Scholar how it is. I don't want to see it blindly, needlessly gutted like a number of other classes for the sake of making it feel even more like other healers.

If you really feel Dissipation is bad, I strongly urge you to go prog/reclear as a Scholar without using it. Please, prove me wrong. Stream it even! I would be fascinated to watch.

But if you can't won't do that, then perhaps you should stand aside and let people who really enjoy the job as it is enjoy the job.

[Calysto]

Wanting to keep Dissipation for "complexity reasons" really isn't a valid argument.
SCH went from "complex" with dot managment and fairy micomanagment to nothing, Clinging to this ability just because it's a remnant of a better era doesn't help the job and if it was be be removed, healers are so easy to balance now it would be replaced with something equal or greater instantly, be it damage or heal wise.

The concept of It being one of the only tool for skill ceiling doesn't help when its a problem for the whole role and not just SCH.

Also telling people to "go play SGE" if they don't like it isn't fair and to that I raise you a "if you want complexity, go play DPS instead" that we all love.

[Deceptus]

Wanting to keep Dissipation for "complexity reasons" really isn't a valid argument.
SCH went from "complex" with dot managment and fairy micomanagment to nothing, Clinging to this ability just because it's a remnant of a better era doesn't help the job and if it was be be removed, healers are so easy to balance now it would be replaced with something equal or greater instantly, be it damage or heal wise.

The concept of It being one of the only tool for skill ceiling doesn't help when its a problem for the whole role and not just SCH.

Also telling people to "go play SGE" if they don't like it isn't fair and to that I raise you a "if you want complexity, go play DPS instead" that we all love.

QFT

Scholar is themed around tactics and battle planning, not synergy. .

They aren't and haven't been for a long time (since at least 5.0)

[Renathras]

Scholar is themed around tactics and battle planning, not synergy.

Did you not read any of the SCH quests or even their lore blurb?

"In an age long past, when mankind flourished under the radiance of arcane mastery, the island of Vylbrand was home to a city-state called Nym. Though the history of that age tells of countless wars waged with earth-shattering incantations, it was the brilliant strategic maneuvering of Nym's scholars that allowed their mundane army of mariners to throw back would-be conquerors time and again. These learned men and women defended the freedom of their tiny nation with their unique command over spell-weaving faeries, utilizing the creatures' magicks to heal the wounded and bolster the strength of their allies."

(Source: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/scholar/ )

It's in the Job tagline. All of the SCH quests have you working with Eos, including her and you both channeling healing magics. The final and capstone SCH quest at level 80, where you cure your first Tonberry, has you and Eos side by side channeling healing magics together. Every part of SCH's lore says "Tactician that works with your Faerie partner". Exactly zero parts say "Eat your Faerie partner for power". Dismiss is effectively the same thing; you're effectively draining/consuming her for power. That's much more of a necromantic or warlock-ish trait, not a SCH one.

Wanting complexity is fine.

Wanting clunk and pretending it's complexity is stupid.

Rather than elevating the other healers to scholar’s level, you want to also kill scholar?

Removing clunk is not going to "kill scholar". And "elevating the other healers to scholar's level"? Come now, that's just a low energy posting. At the very least, AST is already at that level, and arguably has more planning required than SCH, both on a strategic/operational level (CD planning) and on a tactical level (execution with timing, such as Earthly Star or Horoscope or Macrocosmos all having timing elements involved between initial execution and when you need the abilities to go off). So at the very least, AST is on or above SCH's level, and Dissipation or its alteration doesn't change that.

Sage’s entire identity is “easy scholar” so that is a pretty valid option.

No, SGE's entire identity is "heals by doing damage augmented by weaker outright heals than most other healers but a strong mitigation kit with high uptime to smooth damage and make it manageable when planned". Further:

"The nation of Sharlayan is the cradle of knowledge, and the Studium its foremost institution of learning. Yet more so than its incomparable library and formidable assemblage of Archons, this prestigious academy is famed for blending traditionally distinct fields to produce revolutionary new disciplines. Among these, perhaps the most distinguished is an altruistic art which draws upon the wisdom of aetherology, sorcery, and medicine. Dubbed somanoutics, the art seeks to heal and protect by manipulating corporeal aether through the use of nouliths, a flying array of foci. Practitioners are dedicated to the betterment of mankind, and for their wisdom and compassion, eventually came to be known simply as sages."

I don't see "easy scholar" there in the description anywhere. Maybe I'm just missing it. Can you show me where the words "easy scholar" appear in SGE's tagline? I'd like to see where you're seeing it, but...but I don't even see the word "easy" in that description. Or the word "scholar". So maybe you need to reevaluate your position.

Further, if you ever find yourself considering saying "Go play X", that's your mental hint to reevaluate your position and also to not say it.

Or you know you could just think for a second beforehand.

Or, you know, you could just actually read things, not make up things, and also not defend clunk as a form of challenge/skill/complexity/identity?

You really trust SE to delete a skill from a healer and then give us something better in exchange at this point?
Have the last few years taught you nothing?

I mean, they made Misery damage neutral and improved Lilybell, so it's not exactly unheard of.

to AF generating fairy gauge (only synergy remaining in 5.0+).

Agreed with basically all of this post other than this bit. SCH is a mess, but it has some other synergy abilities, which are the things I most like about the Job. Recitation, Deployment Tactics, Emergency Tactics, Fey Illumination, Protraction, and if you can break through the clunk and make meaningful use of it, Dissipation's positive sides (anti-synergy aside) all allow for synergy between abilities. They went the wrong way with Fey Blessing (they should have removed the CD, or stuck a shorter one like 20 sec, but preferably removed, and left the Gauge cost so the Gauge would have a second use and you could stock burst AOE healing that way if you wanted to), but there is some potential there.

There's still some complexity with several of the Healer Jobs - SCH and AST both have a lot of planning and skill expression/ceiling (just not in damage output so much), such as an AST solo healing an Ultimate - but again, clunk is not complexity.

QFT

Hear hear.

[Nizzi]

Wanting to keep Dissipation for "complexity reasons" really isn't a valid argument.

Wanting to remove it because "umm its clunky??? the fairy is like um,, your partner???? i dont like?? it punish me wtf??" isn't a valid argument either. "Punishing" is not an argument.

healers are so easy to balance now it would be replaced with something equal or greater instantly, be it damage or heal wise.

It boggles the mind that you seriously believe this given the past two expansions track record with healers.

The concept of It being one of the only tool for skill ceiling doesn't help when its a problem for the whole role and not just SCH.

Scholar is affected less by this because Energy Drain optimization is something constantly present even in reclears. I will absolutely always be against removing that, no matter what.

Also telling people to "go play SGE" if they don't like it isn't fair and to that I raise you a "if you want complexity, go play DPS instead" that we all love.

It absolutely is fair, you have SGE, a healer job without Dissipation or Energy Drain optimization that is a shield healer with a similar healing kit. When the people complaining and crying about Energy Drain come up with takes like "turn it into a Phlegma copy and give it charges :O" there's no discussion to be had. It's not telling you to play an entirely different role, it's telling you to play the job within that role that doesn't have the thing you're complaining about.
Seemingly unlike a lot of you, I still love one healer job in this game, and that's Scholar. I'm quickly getting to the point where your cries of boredom with the 1 button healer rotation fail to make me sympathetic anymore when you then go and request that any sort of skill ceiling and management present in a healer job be gutted and sanded down further to be just like other jobs. This is the healer design you deserve, remember that.

[Rilifane]

I'm with Nizzi here.
Although Dissipation could really use some adjustments to better fit into current time fight and toolkit designs, Dissipation isn't something that should just get nuked from our spellbooks.
I personally like the trade-off aspect and that you have to think about when to squeeze it in, whether you use it for healing with the additional AF or DPS. Although I dislike that we still have to spend a GCD on resumming our fairy after a death, Dissipation is useful for a quick AF snack during prog and especially after dying. It's also useful on p8s part 2 for replacing GCD heals with AF heals with much lower opportunity cost. We managed to trim every uptime GCD heal during part 2 right up to the later part of Dominion with this. It's also great for buffing downtime Spreadlos, I used to delay Dissipation on Carby to get a buffed Spreadlo off during jumps.

It's not a core part of the toolkit, no. On that I can agree.
But it does fit the trade-off/ opportunity cost design of SCH that makes you think more about when to use which skill, something I miss on the other healers. And despite having to pay opportunity cost, SCH is still one of the meta healers so it's not like it's the heavily punished niche healer that either doesn't heal enough or doesn't bring enough dps. It's in a great spot even with paying opportunity cost and having toolkit lockouts.