Euphrosyne feels a bit lacking

[DiaDeem]

To be perfectly clear, Alliance Raids were never "hard". But to suggest they were never any less easy on their release patch than they are now is just objectively false. What is the point of claiming otherwise? To imply that you're such an elite player that you can't even distinguish the difference between "easy" and "ridiculously easy"? I was there, I remember it, you can't gaslight me about it lol. I remember the raids being abandoned because groups just couldn't manage Ozma, Hashmal, TG Cid. The repeated wipes to Construct 7, Deathgaze. Nothing in Aglaia or Euphrosyne even comes close. Even if you're a god at the game, as just one player of 24 you would inevitably have experienced this too.

Sir, if you're gonna engage with me on the forums and wanna be taken seriously, I'm gonna ask one thing of you: Don't assume I'm implying something I didn't say outright and don't attribute statements to me that I never made. I've always made my Forum posts very clear and I don't talk between the lines, even for some controversial stuff. If you can do that, then we can have a discussion.

For the record: I barely raid Savage, I've never and will never do Ultimate, and I couldn't even handle Criterion Sil'dihn. So no: I'm not an elite player or whatever you wanna call it. I'm not trying to "gaslight" you or anyone. I can only speak for how I feel about my experiences. I've been in groups with plenty of wipes and groups with practically none when every raid was current content, so to me it always balanced to be somewhere in the middle. I'm not a "god" at this or at any game. Any more of that weird speech and I just won't bother to reply again.

[PangTong]

Sir, if you're gonna engage with me on the forums and wanna be taken seriously, I'm gonna ask one thing of you: Don't assume I'm implying something I didn't say outright and don't attribute statements to me that I never made. I've always made my Forum posts very clear and I don't talk between the lines, even for some controversial stuff. If you can do that, then we can have a discussion.

For the record: I barely raid Savage, I've never and will never do Ultimate, and I couldn't even handle Criterion Sil'dihn. So no: I'm not an elite player or whatever you wanna call it. I'm not trying to "gaslight" you or anyone. I can only speak for how I feel about my experiences. I've been in groups with plenty of wipes and groups with practically none when every raid was current content, so to me it always balanced to be somewhere in the middle. I'm not a "god" at this or at any game. Any more of that weird speech and I just won't bother to reply again.

Sorry if there was any offense, I was more just using your reply as an example of a comment that always seems to get made when past Alliance raids get brought up which is "they were always this easy". Which is just... not true. Like there's no other way to say it. The mechanics were not necessarily any more tricky, but they happened faster, there were more mechanics that required group coordination, bosses had more HP, and DPS checks were stricter.

As an example a very common mechanic in older Alliance Raids was for a boss to summon three adds that needed to be separated and dealt with by each individual alliance. There hasn't been anything like that in Myths of the Realm, instead if there is an add phase all the targets are rooted in place and players are free to just attack whichever they like, no coordination necessary. And it doesn't matter too much if a lot of people are dead because the ones left alive can usually kill all the adds with time to spare. Or take Agrias in Orbonne, where one alliance gets sent to the shadow realm and has to deal with adds, one alliance gets trapped in crystals, and the remaining alliance has to free the second alliance. That was cool! But they'd never make something like that now because it would be ruled as too difficult, too much responsibility.

This is not to say they need to bring back those exact mechanics, it's just an example of how current raids are different to how they were before. A decent majority of the group needed to understand the fight for the raid to progress. You could carry a few people, but in general you move on when most everyone has learned and contributed something. That's satisfying group gameplay, and it is more satisfying on an individual level to solve the fight instead of just watching as others drag you through.

[DiaDeem]

Sorry if there was any offense, I was more just using your reply as an example of a comment that always seems to get made when past Alliance raids get brought up which is "they were always this easy". Which is just... not true. Like there's no other way to say it. The mechanics were not necessarily any more tricky, but they happened faster, there were more mechanics that required group coordination, bosses had more HP, and DPS checks were stricter.

As an example a very common mechanic in older Alliance Raids was for a boss to summon three adds that needed to be separated and dealt with by each individual alliance. There hasn't been anything like that in Myths of the Realm, instead if there is an add phase all the targets are rooted in place and players are free to just attack whichever they like, no coordination necessary. And it doesn't matter too much if a lot of people are dead because the ones left alive can usually kill all the adds with time to spare. Or take Agrias in Orbonne, where one alliance gets sent to the shadow realm and has to deal with adds, one alliance gets trapped in crystals, and the remaining alliance has to free the second alliance. That was cool! But they'd never make something like that now because it would be ruled as too difficult, too much responsibility.

This is not to say they need to bring back those exact mechanics, it's just an example of how current raids are different to how they were before. A decent majority of the group needed to understand the fight for the raid to progress. You could carry a few people, but in general you move on when most everyone has learned and contributed something. That's satisfying group gameplay, and it is more satisfying on an individual level to solve the fight instead of just watching as others drag you through.

All good.

As I told Harun, and what I think is true, is that what we're missing is variety in the presentation of the mechanics. I would love to see them go back to some of the stuff they were trying in Crystal Tower. Say what you will bout LOTA, but it's a very unique feeling when you know everyone has to work together when reaching the Atomos and the Agrias mechanic you mentioned was rather fun. I don't doubt they can still make something like this, being that CLL, DR and Dalriada are all fairly recent in comparison, but I guess they wanted to keep it straightforward this time.

So yes, NGL: Despite enjoying Euphy, I will agree that they could try to do more. That said, I still think the issue is more general with how they're making ARs more than just Euphy.

[Tint]

As an example a very common mechanic in older Alliance Raids was for a boss to summon three adds that needed to be separated and dealt with by each individual alliance. There hasn't been anything like that in Myths of the Realm, instead if there is an add phase all the targets are rooted in place and players are free to just attack whichever they like, no coordination necessary. And it doesn't matter too much if a lot of people are dead because the ones left alive can usually kill all the adds with time to spare. Or take Agrias in Orbonne, where one alliance gets sent to the shadow realm and has to deal with adds, one alliance gets trapped in crystals, and the remaining alliance has to free the second alliance. That was cool! But they'd never make something like that now because it would be ruled as too difficult, too much responsibility.

That's not exactly true. While they are rooted in place, the alliance has to split up and kill 3 adds in the Halone fight. The groups are then sperated by some ice walls. Also there are 3 damage split towers at the same time and I already got killed once because there were not enough people with me.

It's not super difficult or whatever, but the alliance should spread out for these mechanics. You can't heal though the ice wall. And you need enough people to kill the add in time of course. And the fact that the adds are rooted in place is also nothing new. World of Darkness had adds like that and many other alliance raids as well.

[Payadopa]

I don't get why we have 3 parties when all you do is act like a 4 or 8 men. CT while being terrible now at least acknowledged that you were three groups. Also, why does every content gets a pass by saying 'it's supposed to be easy'? Everything is soloable in the game. Why can't we go off the training wheels when we do actual group content. It's either savage or be bored. The ilvl for every piece of old content is way, way too high.

[ToniRomo]

As a bad player who always dies for stupid reasons even I found this raid too quick and easy. I think it took us around 35 minutes and I died once the whole time without knowing anything. Normally I'd die 10 times.

[DiaDeem]

PS: I don't think base ARs should be made harder. People already dodge anything that's not CT as is, but I think we're long overdue for (Hard) versions of all raids as a stepping stone between normal content and EX content. Some people argue that going to EX can sometimes feel a bit overwhelming after just doing normal content, and I think ARs would be a good place to have that step and get unique cool rewards.

Maybe... or maybe not, I dunno. I'm not a game designer lol.

[anna-steele]

its a raid you can queue for with many players. its like LFR in that other game. i dunno why people expect it to be difficult. if it were too difficult, you all demanding an increase would just be on the forums complaining about noobs, or saying there should be a savage etc...

[Tehmon]

The bosses spend too much time introducing their mechanics and Menphina isn't punishing enough, those are my biggest issues.

After the bosses introduce their mechanics, they don't do enough to combine them either. Nophica should have her misdirection debuff go off during the second Matron's Breath. Nymeia's tarot card mechanic should go with the three water knockbacks. Halone should do Lochos or her spear thrusting move during Will of the Fury. Menphina should have the floor be slippery more than once.

Either way I still love the raid. I enjoy it for the spectacle, really.

[RobynDaBank]

Honestly reading these comments makes me bummed as hell about myself, because I find the latter two bosses extremely painful to understand telegraphs of. We did a 23/24 blind FC run and we all died a bunch, and in my second run a lot of the times on Menphina I'd no clue what telegraph I was looking for.

I'm probably just going to be called bad but I personally would have screamed if things were any harder or faster.