Euphrosyne feels a bit lacking

[PangTong]

Like always the aesthetics of the new Alliance Raid are top notch. Good visuals, good music. But I feel like the gameplay just wasn't there this time.

For one it feels like there's just a general lack of innovative mechanics. Alliance raids are where we usually see some of the more experimental or interesting mechanics ideas, but Euphrosyne feels VERY by the book. The last two bosses especially only felt like they had one mechanic: cleave half the room, just with different patterns and tells.

The Althyk/Nymeia fight is the only one that felt kind of original with the time acceleration mechanic, but unfortunately it is kind of underutilized, only happening two or three times in a pull and always in the same way.

Compared to Aglaia the difference is stark. Almost every boss in Aglaia has something fresh and fun like Byregot's hammers or Rhalgr's finger knockbacks and meteor punches. By comparison Euphrosyne feels like the mechanics budget ran out.


The other thing is that the raid is just SUPER easy. I get that Alliance raids are not meant to be really challenging, but this one is especially gentle, even moreso than Aglaia which was already very easy. I went into the raid immediately after the patch went up, so all 24 players were going in blind. In the whole run we only had a single wipe, and most of the bosses didn't even last long enough for us to get LB3.

The mechanics don't really require any team coordination, so it is easy to just endlessly recover as long as a couple of people can stay alive. The mechanics also come out extremely slowly with a LOT of time dedicated to the mechanic "explanations" where they do an easy version of the mechanic first then ramp it up next time. By the time you get to the "real" versions of the mechanics, the boss has 30% HP left. The only real way you wipe in these raids now is if you get a full set of tanks or healers who don't know how to play to a degree that is close to griefing. It's almost easier to wipe in DUNGEONS than alliance raids now, since you only have 1 healer instead of 6.

For me personally, I find it unsatisfying if my group (myself included) can make dozens and dozens of mistakes, die over and over, and still clear. It makes it feel like doing the mechanics correctly doesn't even matter and like I didn't even really contribute to the win, like I could have just afk'd and the result would have been the same. If you die and the group clears without you, you don't even get to enjoy playing and solving the content, you just watch as others do it for you.

Considering this is content that is intended to be run repeatedly (not to mention it's the premier content of the odd patches), I feel like the raids shouldn't be so easy as to be outright boring or unsatisfying. Just look at Labyrinth and Syrcus Tower to see what that's like.

I personally was a big fan of the tuning and design of the Ivalice raids in their release state, as well as Weeping City and Dun Scaith. The bosses put up enough resistance to be enjoyable and satisfying to beat, but not so much that a weaker player couldn't be carried through. Nerfs can always be put in later if it turns out new players struggle when running it as old content, so I don't feel like there's any real reason why we couldn't have that kind of tuning again.


That's all. Just my feedback for the devs. The players, even the average ones you get in DF, aren't as incompetent as these raids insinuate. Have a little faith. They can handle more, I know because I've seen it. And I think it would make the game more fun to play.

[Asari5]

i agree with everything

[OperaMorgana]

oh i thought i was the only one....this raid is sooo underwelming, so fast and too easy...bosses melt like cheese on a stove...its even easier than CT...................

and also the new trial is the same tbh...

[Jettinson]

Oh i mostly noticed the boss health going down real fast and we kept eating some mechanics...

I do gotta say the 1st fight hurts my eyes too, anyone having that problem? The aoe kinda blend

[kevin_satron]

we need Ivalice allience raid type of difficulty

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

we need Ivalice allience raid type of difficulty

The only ivalice raid that was difficult was orbonne.



And even then, only Cid.



I've seen tons of people get rekt by halone.

[FatalFatalis]

The immense majority of the mechanics were just "dodge aoe", it all felt pretty samey. I'm a bit sad that the only thing Dalamud (the dog) does is a half arena cleave, for example.

Like you said, only fight I kinda enjoyed was the second one with the Astro and time accelerating mechanics, and even that last one was underused.
Also, idk if it was just bad luck, but apparently there are 4 different Astro cards that can appear but I only saw 2 (one of them once).

[Ath192]

I agree, the Devs pay way too much attention to the complaining that happens on this forum in regards to difficulty. A lot of players don't want the game to be a punishing hell hole of wipes that makes uber casual people quit, me included. But we also don't want the game to be a snooze fest steam roll.

I highly enjoyed the Orbonne Monastery difficulty when it came out, and people were.... wait for it..... actually communicating and collaborating in chat to defeat the boss. What a novel concept in an MMO. unfortunately, the disadvantages that came with that is that the content was dead after it wasn't popular anymore because noone wanted to run it and risk wiping.

Maybe the solution to this problem is to make it difficult like Orbonne Monastery while the loot cap exists and the raid is current, and after the loot cap drops in the same patch give it a 20% echo that makes it a snoozefest, that way people won't mind running it for new players in the future.

Surely their design can standardize a 20 minute runtime for alliance raids on average with Echo tweaks so people don't cheat their way into CT all the time. But while its the hot item. Give us satisfying raids please.

[PangTong]

I agree, the Devs pay way too much attention to the complaining that happens on this forum in regards to difficulty. A lot of players don't want the game to be a punishing hell hole of wipes that makes uber casual people quit, me included. But we also don't want the game to be a snooze fest steam roll.

I highly enjoyed the Orbonne Monastery difficulty when it came out, and people were.... wait for it..... actually communicating and collaborating in chat to defeat the boss. What a novel concept in an MMO. unfortunately, the disadvantages that came with that is that the content was dead after it wasn't popular anymore because noone wanted to run it and risk wiping.

Maybe the solution to this problem is to make it difficult like Orbonne Monastery while the loot cap exists and the raid is current, and after the loot cap drops in the same patch give it a 20% echo that makes it a snoozefest, that way people won't mind running it for new players in the future.

Surely their design can standardize a 20 minute runtime for alliance raids on average with Echo tweaks so people don't cheat their way into CT all the time. But while its the hot item. Give us satisfying raids please.

I feel the same way. If the reason the raids are so easy is because of some hypothetical distant future where totally new and inexperienced players struggle to get through old story content, then couldn't they at least wait until that future is real to nerf it? While it's current content, it is expected that the active playerbase will be running it regularly, so even if a player is not good enough on their own, there are enough competent players running the content that they can be carried through no problem. This is the whole reason the Echo system exists!

That was the case throughout all of Heavensward and Stormblood, I don't know why in Shadowbringers they decided Alliance Raids should be total pushovers. Overcorrection from Orbonne maybe? But even then, Nier was not as easy as Myths of the Realm so far, and no one complained that Nier was too hard. So I don't know why they made it even easier.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I feel the same way. If the reason the raids are so easy is because of some hypothetical distant future where totally new and inexperienced players struggle to get through old story content, then couldn't they at least wait until that future is real to nerf it? While it's current content, it is expected that the active playerbase will be running it regularly, so even if a player is not good enough on their own, there are enough competent players running the content that they can be carried through no problem. This is the whole reason the Echo system exists!

That was the case throughout all of Heavensward and Stormblood, I don't know why in Shadowbringers they decided Alliance Raids should be total pushovers. Overcorrection from Orbonne maybe? But even then, Nier was not as easy as Myths of the Realm so far, and no one complained that Nier was too hard. So I don't know why they made it even easier.

People thought the Nier raids were hard?



News to me. I remember a lot of people hating on them for other reasons, like "this should have just been an event, why did they make a collab our alliance raids for a whole expansion" type complaints. Never "omg raid tier so hard"



Mhach raids were also easy. Only annoying boss was ozma because people can't mechanics.