So does every hate new PLD now?

[Rithy255]

I feel somewhat the same myself. There's still some jank to clean up, especially in the button count. However, I think they kept most of what made the job solid intact and just need to iron things out. Contrast to the complete tear down of Summoner and I'll welcome the more cautious change. My own take is I think they can afford to axe Circle of Scorn and merge Holy Spirit/Circle into a single button with AoE. I'm not sure how I feel about Goring Blade yet but just cleaning up the button count would be a good step.

I don't mind if scorn stays, but if they removed it I wouldn't mind, I think the only issue is it would make level 50-60 PLD really even worse then it already is, a big issue that new PLD has is cutting out the DOT management you had in HW makes it really painful to play PLD until stormblood now, I really really hope that they make PLD at least have some magic in HW if not ARR, I like your cleave Idea with holy spirit, just make it do like 40% less damage to other targets (also update the animation a bit, so it makes more sense). Easily cuts out at least one ability

Theirs Plenty of ways to get rid of PLD'S "bloat" without changing the class: Rework Holy shelltron into a targeting ability (with 3 seconds cd so you can still can use one on self and the other tank), Make the Req button turn into Confiteor, Using goring blade gives you the FOF buff or just buff the req burst and remove fight or flight (make it a early version of req that gives u 4 powered up gcds), like you suggested remove circle of scorn (slightly buff expiacion) and/or make Holy spirit into a cleave that works both for aoe/single target, Removing "shield bash" Some people like this ability thought? so maybe not but meh.

I think theirs no excuse for the amount of PLD bloat we have right now, we don't really need to rework anything core to the new Paladin I think Building upon what it is now could be Interesting, I think atonement needs to not interrupt your 1, 2, 3 combo for example.