PLD 6.3 opinions

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

That was most certainly not a thing done by tanks in ShB because in ShB you just either invuln'd or just kitchen sink'd the tankbusters. You're talking out your ass.

e1s, e2s, e3s, e9s, e10s, e11s and e12s, I guess in e7s also all had tankbusters where you couldn't always avail of invulns and was a benefit to swap swapping short mits, in one way or another.

[VictorSpoils]

- Cover; no other tank can save an ally like this. Hell, no other *class* can save an ally like this.

- Ranged magic attacks; no other tank periodically becomes a ranged class.

Cover really doesn't save people. The tank is standing away from everyone and even further from the fragile ranged classes. Even if they did buff the range, it'd still be risky since you're taking the damage a non-tank with vulnerability stacks would. The two-minute cooldown is also overkill when compounded with the range, cost, and mechanics.

If Ranged Tank ever became a role somehow, PLD could probably fit that niche, but as of right now, the range on Holy Spirit is moot most of the time, especially with Requiescat being a melee attack.

[Corbeau]

I have saved pulls with cover. More than a few incidents in e12s spring to mind. It's one of very few genuinely mistake-saving mechanics in the game.

[DoubleOneOne]

After a few more days with the damage rotation I realize that arguing over rotations in a full uptime context is pointless. After a period of time people who learn the rotation will eventually call it boring and beg for changes, and people who don't will call it to 'jank'. In the end all nonRNG jobs will be like this.
But as I can tell by how this conversation has leaned more into PLD mitigation I understand that the 'fun' part of tanking is learning how and where to use mitigation it each fight. Having tools that aren't useful ALL the time whether that be due to cool down management or team positioning make tanks think about how to use them.

Rampart, Sentinel, and Reprisal need NO changes

The gauge mits... because they are all on effectively the same cool down, ignoring how dumb of a cooldown it is. That means if you buff 1 you are nerfing the other 2, and vise versa. Also because Cover is a 'sometimes' button that requires gauge let me ask a question. Why are you not using your gauge on sheltron on cooldown? Sure I said earlier that different mitigation timings fight to fight is good, but don't take that as me saying PLD exclusive Cover strats are a healthy thing for the game to allow. However, the big problem with the gauge is that in order to use 2 abilities you have to have it cap. So you either have to pick loose gauge, or loose a mit. It is also sad that Intervention is buffed rampart OR sentinel. It would be cool if you COULD stack them.

and now the hot takes
6.2 Veil would've been SOOO good with the current damage rotation. Being able to delay it till you next HS, or moving your HS to have it active at a specific point would've made filler no longer braindead. The new veil may as well just be called Reprisal II.
The only change that PoA could get that wouldn't make me be sad is adding a HoT or something for channeling it. The duration would probably have to be shortened, but that would make the idea of snapshotting it more clear. Complaining about it being a rear facing cone is an odd hill to die on. If it was a rectangle would that be better? What about a bubble? What about Reprisal III? If you don't want to learn how to late weave, or god forbid loss personal damage to mitigate you may need to look a different role.

Clemency is exclusively for unsynced and leveling content so it's balance is a dice roll on how much I care.

[Mikey_R]

The gauge mits... because they are all on effectively the same cool down, ignoring how dumb of a cooldown it is. That means if you buff 1 you are nerfing the other 2, and vise versa. Also because Cover is a 'sometimes' button that requires gauge let me ask a question. Why are you not using your gauge on sheltron on cooldown?

Optimally, you do, assuming you don't need the mitigation in the cooldown period.

Sure I said earlier that different mitigation timings fight to fight is good, but don't take that as me saying PLD exclusive Cover strats are a healthy thing for the game to allow. However, the big problem with the gauge is that in order to use 2 abilities you have to have it cap. So you either have to pick loose gauge, or loose a mit. It is also sad that Intervention is buffed rampart OR sentinel. It would be cool if you COULD stack them.

You can lose gauge in the same way the other tank short cooldowns lose cooldown time if you don't use them on cooldown. If you know you are going to need it, you save it. Every tank has to deal with this, this is not unique.

6.2 Veil would've been SOOO good with the current damage rotation. Being able to delay it till you next HS, or moving your HS to have it active at a specific point would've made filler no longer braindead. The new veil may as well just be called Reprisal II.

It could have been, however, think about the situations where you do not have a Divine Might buff but need to activate DV. Also, if you want to call it Reprisal 2, then I'm assuming you also call Shake it Off, Dark Missionary and Heart of Light Reprisal 2.

[Wardream]

I was somewhat scared about PLD rework. The first couple of days I felt if I wanna continue to be PLD main, but I'm getting the hang of it now. The only real thing about the rework I generally think is a little worse now, is the healing effect granted by Divine Veil.

Before, Divine Veil applied a heal, when its shield effect ran out either by damage or timer. Now it applies heal as soon as its activated. In most situations I see this as a wasted heal. Divine Veil is mainly used to provide a party-wide shield against party-wide attacks. And mostly this is done right before the attack, and very often party's hp is already high or full in these situations, especially if healer is good. Of course, in situations where there's several party-wides in a row, this works fine, but they are still relatively rare.

I think Divine Veil's healing effect would be more useful, if it is applied after the shield runs out, like it was before. But I do like now that the shield is applied instantly without the need for a GCD heal.

[Rithy255]

and now the hot takes
6.2 Veil would've been SOOO good with the current damage rotation. Being able to delay it till you next HS, or moving your HS to have it active at a specific point would've made filler no longer braindead. The new veil may as well just be called Reprisal II.
The only change that PoA could get that wouldn't make me be sad is adding a HoT or something for channeling it. The duration would probably have to be shortened, but that would make the idea of snapshotting it more clear. Complaining about it being a rear facing cone is an odd hill to die on. If it was a rectangle would that be better? What about a bubble? What about Reprisal III? If you don't want to learn how to late weave, or god forbid loss personal damage to mitigate you may need to look a different role.

I feel like it's a weird hill to be on defending janky and weird abilities for the sake of it being "unique" if you don't know Veil and passage are already "reprisal 2 & 3" just because with divine veil you had to meet some weird conditions to proc your ability doesn't make it "unique" in a good way, it makes it annoying and unappealing. Theirs really nothing unique in how it works, that isn't just a negative it's not like divine veil brought something to the table that Shake didn't.

Passage of arms is another case of "just weave it as a cone" sure? ok but i much rather just click the passage of arms button and mitigate damage, PAO literally works like any other mitigation apart from the cone effect having to be this inconsistent "late weave" it's already reprisal 3, but a bit more annoying and situational to use theirs no benefits to the ability being a cone, You might like late weaving the animation because it feels "unique" but a lot of people just want to i don't know press the mitigation button? In organised play its less of a issue but in PF or just normal duties it's certainly not really the best to use it when half your team mates walk in font of you or the timer is inconsistent.

I know how to late weave it, I just don't see it as "unique" or fun, I like a lot about PLD I can dislike certain things about a Job but still overall enjoy it.

[CKNovel]

and now the hot takes
6.2 Veil would've been SOOO good with the current damage rotation. Being able to delay it till you next HS, or moving your HS to have it active at a specific point would've made filler no longer braindead. The new veil may as well just be called Reprisal II.
The only change that PoA could get that wouldn't make me be sad is adding a HoT or something for channeling it. The duration would probably have to be shortened, but that would make the idea of snapshotting it more clear. Complaining about it being a rear facing cone is an odd hill to die on. If it was a rectangle would that be better? What about a bubble? What about Reprisal III? If you don't want to learn how to late weave, or god forbid loss personal damage to mitigate you may need to look a different role.

6.3 Veil remains better thanks to its instant effect.
You shouldn't have to mix your rotation and defensives.

If you want to name all mitigations "reprisal I, II, III", wait until you realise they're all named "mitigations".
They don't need to be unique, they need to be practical. 6.3 veil is much more practicable than 6.2 veil.
Then, reprisal needs a target to be effective, Veil doesn't need a target, which already makes a major difference in use.

You can argue and die on this hill if you want to, but 6.3 Veil is simply better than 6.2 Veil.

[DoubleOneOne]

You shouldn't have to mix your rotation and defensives.

Do you think mits are GCDs??? and that they break your combo? Do you think Vengeance is a bad thing to have in the game?

With ANY 6.3 PLD rotation you press a button that activates old veil every 15s at MOST for a 30s SHIELD(not mitigation), AKA available at any time. The problem isn't the fact you CAN instant cast it. Its that you can't press the button early for the pay off of a "shorter" cooldown.

The point I'm trying to make with calling them reprisal I, II, and III is that having limitations to your power is what makes the game fun. Would a 1 button damage rotation be fun? Cause it should as heck would be more practical. What about letting players use LB3 without a cool down? You'd kill bosses faster.

Also I don't think you noticed I am fine with reprisal being instant cast, BECAUSE it has the downside of needing a target. New veil's downside? it has 60s of downtime... How hard to work around. Oh wait you also have to be in range of everyone. Wait nvm it is an insane sized range in single combat. Every 6.2 PLD defensive tool had a downside like veil, sheltron and PoA having short durations when used correctly, intervention reprisal shirk and cover requiring a targeted, Clemency being a GCD.

6.3 Veil is not better hard stop. It is way easier to use, but that does NOT make it better. We no longer can use it EFFECTIVLY as many times before in a fight hard stop. You want instant cast, take it, but let me delay mine so I can cover both raidwides 31s-89s apart.

I can't wait for 6.4 when intervention and shirk can only be used on the person second in agro...