Review of 6.3 Story Content

**Renathras** · 01-18-2023 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Amenara

Also for those using Mr. Happy as their retort to the OP, you have to also realize that the people who watch and comment on his videos are going to be the people that love the game and aren't going to be overly critical of it, not to defend the OP's sometimes way out there opinions.

Wait, so your rebuttal is only people who are unhappy and dislike the game are allowed to offer retorts? OP linked to (mostly one poster) on Reddit (who might be his alt for all we know; he didn't link the thread so we could see if it was a common opinion or not) who dislikes the game as a source. I'm pretty sure using Mr Happy, if he's making reasonable points, is fair play. Likewise, if the people commenting on his video are making reasonable points, it is again fair play.

Them not being overly critical of the game is, itself, a rebuttal: If OP was as correct as he seems to think he is, then EW would be universally reviled. That it is not indicates that he is probably...shall we say overstating his case.

People who like a thing are allowed to be a source of rebuttal against people who dislike a thing. Imagine if we reversed this and said "Only people who like a thing may offer critiques or rebuttals, because clearly anyone who dislikes it is going to be overly critical of it and so we cannot use them as unbiased or reasonable sources, and only those that love it are going to be fair in their appraisals"? That would make no sense, either.

**Amenara** · 01-18-2023 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

So....are you saying their opinions arnt valid?
I think its perfectly valid to have opinions on both sides. People who like the game and disagree with OP, and people who dont like the game/things about it and support OP.
I think being a youtuber/Figure and being a fan or not of said figure shouldn't have any baring on that.

And here are people who are stating the OPs opinions aren't valid like you are accusing me of saying of Mr. Happy's viewers, which I am not saying. I am just saying there is a certain point of view you will get from his video comments as the more dedicated and positive part of the fanbase are going to be his viewers just like if you go to reddit you will find the more positive part of the fanbase and the official forums has the more negative part of the fanbase.

Originally Posted by Renathras

Wait, so your rebuttal is only people who are unhappy and dislike the game are allowed to offer retorts? OP linked to (mostly one poster) on Reddit (who might be his alt for all we know; he didn't link the thread so we could see if it was a common opinion or not) who dislikes the game as a source. I'm pretty sure using Mr Happy, if he's making reasonable points, is fair play. Likewise, if the people commenting on his video are making reasonable points, it is again fair play.

Them not being overly critical of the game is, itself, a rebuttal: If OP was as correct as he seems to think he is, then EW would be universally reviled. That it is not indicates that he is probably...shall we say overstating his case.

People who like a thing are allowed to be a source of rebuttal against people who dislike a thing. Imagine if we reversed this and said "Only people who like a thing may offer critiques or rebuttals, because clearly anyone who dislikes it is going to be overly critical of it and so we cannot use them as unbiased or reasonable sources, and only those that love it are going to be fair in their appraisals"? That would make no sense, either.

Again I am not saying their opinions aren't valid, I am just pointing out that you are going to have a certain over saturated viewpoint on his videos, just like you might see a different over saturated viewpoint from a youtuber who has a more critical reception to things in the game. I agree 100% that the OP way overstates problems with the game and plays fast and loose with what are factual or not, but if you look past that you can see some valid thoughts and opinions that shouldn't be shut down because he goes to the extreme.

**Zanarkand-Ronso** · 01-18-2023 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Amenara

And here are people who are stating the OPs opinions aren't valid like you are accusing me of saying of Mr. Happy's viewers, which I am not saying. I am just saying there is a certain point of view you will get from his video comments as the more dedicated and positive part of the fanbase are going to be his viewers just like if you go to reddit you will find the more positive part of the fanbase and the official forums has the more negative part of the fanbase.

I didnt accuse you of anything, I asked you a question; Clarification based on what you said and how it reads.
People need to stop getting defensive lol.
But, they are entitled to that point of view. Just like OP and his supporters.

**Amenara** · 01-18-2023 01:09 PM

Sorry, it's easy to imply tone on the internet. I agree, everyone is entitled to an opinion but at the same time when people on both sides are bashing each other or exaggerating opinions to be facts it takes away from a good discourse we could be having.

**Renathras** · 01-18-2023 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Amenara

Again I am not saying their opinions aren't valid, I am just pointing out that you are going to have a certain over saturated viewpoint on his videos, just like you might see a different over saturated viewpoint from a youtuber who has a more critical reception to things in the game. I agree 100% that the OP way overstates problems with the game and plays fast and loose with what are factual or not, but if you look past that you can see some valid thoughts and opinions that shouldn't be shut down because he goes to the extreme.

That's fair - IF we recognize the same thing in reverse. These forums are known to have an oversaturated critical poster base. And Reddit isn't much better. So by this token, we could point out that you have a certain over saturated viewpoint on these forums and on Reddit. Right?

Valid thoughts can and should be stated as such. His few half-valid points were drowned out by the rest of the gunk, which makes it hard to have a reasonable discussion. The false appeal to authority doesn't help. Though we CAN have a reasonable discussion over the reasonable points...but that would require the OP to engage with people critiquing his points and acknowledge and/or offer counters to their points, which he didn't do. Perhaps other people in the thread are doing it, but the OP kind of poisoned the waters from the start making it more difficult.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Hyperia

Regardless, we need those Devs back or this game is going to start to go in the wrong direction fast, public opinion and perception are terribly fluid. Once people think that the game is in decline, it will take 10 times more work to counter that perception or direction, even if they are incorrect. Opinions and perceptions are incredibly powerful in either direction with mountains of work to go up and a drop of a feather to fall... and the feather is quivering...

While this CAN be true, it's probably not QUITE as true as you think.

Keep in mind FFXIV had stable sub numbers pre-6.0, and even pre-5.0. Yoshi P once said something to the general effect he was fine being a lower playerbase MMO (as long as it was profitable enough to keep the servers running, I guess), and had no ambitions to be the most played in the world or the WoW killer or whatnot. He seemed genuinely shocked with the 5.4/5.5 surge in players and then dismayed with 6.0 and the servers not being able to handle FFXIV being a victim of its own success. Not only did SE pause sales of the game, Yoshi P made a public apology to the players (and even non-player gamers that were trying to join in) over it and all the stuff they were trying to do to fix things. Nothing says "You've done an amazing job" like basically being sold out of every copy of the thing you're selling (or in this case, having servers so full people were waiting in ques for hours and thousands of players just to get in on it)

When the pandemic hit and a lot of people started playing MMOs (and games in general) to have a social outlet and something to do when stuck at home, it also happened to be at a time when WoW had one of their weakest expansions in history and a massive company scandal (or...like three of them or so), also at a time FFXIV expanded their free trial (critically acclaimed, etc etc), and we had a content drought in basically all MMOs at more or less the same time, where a bunch of YouTubers and content creators tried out FFXIV, leading to a glut of players just as EW launched, which is WHY (that and the pandemic breaking down supply lines) the servers had so many issues and they couldn't get new ones up to share the load, leading to a perfect storm.

The end result was FFXIV's playerbase basically doubled from somewhere in the 1.5-2.5 million to somewhere in the 3-5 million range. Possibly more.

Those people, keep in mind, the 1.5-2.5 million, were both enough to keep the game going and paying for itself (and a good chunk of SE's profits) AND were the people sticking with the game through Stormblood, arguably FFXIV's weakest expansion (it set a lot of things up, but was slow in a lot of places and seemed to suffer from the overly split focus). That is, this was the stable playerbase pre-5.0, pre-5.4/5.5 (the initial glut), and pre-6.0 (the massive hyper surge). That's FFXIV's "floor", so to speak.

So even if everything happened as you said and the fair-weather-players all quit...FFXIV would basically be back to where it was in 4.5-5.1 or so, which was a healthy place. So the (realizable) worst case scenario here isn't really end of the world terrible.

That said, it'd be nice to keep capturing lightning in a bottle again and again with FFXIV, and it's done so a number of times, so easily can again. But I think the doom and gloom is insanely premature. One can argue better to get ahead of things now before they get too terrible, but we really aren't on a "terrible" trend right now, either.

**Plasma711** · 01-18-2023 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Renathras

That's fair - IF we recognize the same thing in reverse. These forums are known to have an oversaturated critical poster base. And Reddit isn't much better. So by this token, we could point out that you have a certain over saturated viewpoint on these forums and on Reddit. Right?

Valid thoughts can and should be stated as such. His few half-valid points were drowned out by the rest of the gunk, which makes it hard to have a reasonable discussion. The false appeal to authority doesn't help. Though we CAN have a reasonable discussion over the reasonable points...but that would require the OP to engage with people critiquing his points and acknowledge and/or offer counters to their points, which he didn't do. Perhaps other people in the thread are doing it, but the OP kind of poisoned the waters from the start making it more difficult.

1. You're probably one of the most level headed people I have ever seen in a game forum
2. He did poison it right off the bat, because he isnt looking to have a conversation. He thinks everything in the game sucks, and he can do a better job with it all and anyone who disagrees you're a sheep or an SE shill. There was 0 chance this thread as a whole was going to be constructive or actually go anywhere from the start.

**VelKallor** · 01-18-2023 01:13 PM

If OP was as correct as he seems to think he is, then EW would be universally reviled.

Given that

It was so sold out that Square had to cease sales
It has received massively good reviews everywhere
The forums are a tiny scant fraction of a percentage of the entire playerbase
That Aveyond has NOT ONCE replied to anyone calling him out
That the game continues to grow

..Id say that Aveyond's claims of "everyone hating the game" resembles the truth in the same way a steaming pile of fwe resembles a gourmet meal

**Elissar** · 01-18-2023 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by VelKallor

That the game continues to grow

..Id say that Aveyond's claims of "everyone hating the game" resembles the truth in the same way a steaming pile of fwe resembles a gourmet meal

It's been a pleasure to log in and see so many people everywhere, partyfinder active, short queues, etc.

Weird type of hate indeed.

**IkaraGreydancer** · 01-18-2023 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Elissar

It's been a pleasure to log in and see so many people everywhere, partyfinder active, short queues, etc.

Weird type of hate indeed.

You're doing it wrong. If you want real proof of a ded game queue for Ifrit EX n see how long it takes to get a pop. Crazy stuff

**Talonk** · 01-18-2023 01:19 PM

I dont know. Maybe im still upset that I didn't enjoy 6.0. We went from shadowbringers to this expansion and im still wondering if the bar was set way too high. I will just wait and see what they decide to do with 7.0. Not to compare to wow but its a great example. The ending of the burning crusade was imprisoning sargeras and before he was imprisoned he stabbed azeroth. Blizzard left that sword there 3 expansions now without explaining the meaning of it or saying what its purpose is. I hope we don't get that same treatment with this expansions unanswered questions

Thread: Review of 6.3 Story Content

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