More Healing (specific) Classes

[Delsus]

Dancer was in no way underplayed you will see so many people soloing dynamis with dnc/thf go check right now.

You mean after Dynamis was ruined like everything else since Abyssea?

[Urthdigger]

A cure for 1000 like Pld would more be what a DPS/Healer should have. You really don't get what the people who want hybrids want I guess, not a replacement for Whm but a DPS that is able to assist the party. Typically this means a lower mana pool, refresh capability of MP reduced (weapon out = almost no refresh) all while putting up with dealing damage and being smart enough to not take hate with their version of cures. Brd can not do this, it is completely ineffective with cures and its dps is laughable to other jobs. Trust me, I played a lot of Brd before I got tired of doing crap damage and not being able to cure effectively.

I do understand what people who want hybrids want to have. I also know that the closest they'll get is Paladin. Yes, I know Paladin supposedly has shitty DPS. There's a reason why people in MMOs have a tendency to stack a single class, like black mages. It's because people would rather find the best job for a given specific role, and just that role. People in MMOs don't generally tend to trust each other. In a random pickup group, would you want your healer to be on a class that doesn't heal as well, and pray that he remembers to actually heal the party while he's trying to boost his epeen numbers DPSing? Or would you rather he come as a healer and focus on that role?

A prime example of the issue with such a hybrid class would be Red Mage from FFXI. Now, I know what you're thinking, people loved RDM, but you need to look at the reason WHY. RDM was designed as a hybrid class, able to melee, heal, and nuke. Instead, you never saw RDMs nuke, or melee, you only saw them heal because stats meant jack for healing (See also how bard and summoner were used as healers) and they had refresh. It didn't matter if you knew you could outdamage the thief, lolrdmmelee.

Also, go give THM with cure a shot, assuming you allocated to INT and MND. Sounds like a decent DPS/cure combo.

[AmyNeudaiz]

I do understand what people who want hybrids want to have. I also know that the closest they'll get is Paladin. Yes, I know Paladin supposedly has shitty DPS. There's a reason why people in MMOs have a tendency to stack a single class, like black mages. It's because people would rather find the best job for a given specific role, and just that role. People in MMOs don't generally tend to trust each other. In a random pickup group, would you want your healer to be on a class that doesn't heal as well, and pray that he remembers to actually heal the party while he's trying to boost his epeen numbers DPSing? Or would you rather he come as a healer and focus on that role?

A prime example of the issue with such a hybrid class would be Red Mage from FFXI. Now, I know what you're thinking, people loved RDM, but you need to look at the reason WHY. RDM was designed as a hybrid class, able to melee, heal, and nuke. Instead, you never saw RDMs nuke, or melee, you only saw them heal because stats meant jack for healing (See also how bard and summoner were used as healers) and they had refresh. It didn't matter if you knew you could outdamage the thief, lolrdmmelee.

Also, go give THM with cure a shot, assuming you allocated to INT and MND. Sounds like a decent DPS/cure combo.

I really think they can pull off hybrid jobs a lot better in 2.0 than they did with XI. Besides, what is the harm in having more playstyles? As is we're stuck with just Whm heal, War tank, Blm DD and everything else being considered inefficient because there are lacking pieces of the puzzle (and balance issues, but that's another topic). And I tried Thm with cure before and again it wasn't all that good.
Whm being a better healer so you only need 1 main healer and a back up healer isn't a bad idea and opens the door to other possibilities like having a Pld and a Rdm assist one Whm heal while doing their other jobs while also opening the door to melee DD's who take damage in fights making for similar dps output to just 2 Whm's doing all the healing and the rest being 1 war and all pure ranged DD. It only opens the door to more possibilities of play style.
But if you're just one who doesn't like change and wants everything to stay the same forever then just say so I'll just ignore this thread from now on.

[Urthdigger]

I would LIKE there to be change and for people to play a wide variety of classes. I'm just a pessimist who understands the reasons why people don't. Adding a hybrid class would most likely wind up with a class that nobody invites to parties. You said it yourself, we're "stuck with just Whm heal, War tank, Blm DD and everything else being considered inefficient because there are lacking pieces of the puzzle".

If we just drop a hybrid into the game as it is... or hell, just another healer period, it'll wind up a class that sees little use, if any. Hence why I said that FFXIV doesn't need a healer, or at least it doesn't right now.

[AmyNeudaiz]

I would LIKE there to be change and for people to play a wide variety of classes. I'm just a pessimist who understands the reasons why people don't. Adding a hybrid class would most likely wind up with a class that nobody invites to parties. You said it yourself, we're "stuck with just Whm heal, War tank, Blm DD and everything else being considered inefficient because there are lacking pieces of the puzzle".

If we just drop a hybrid into the game as it is... or hell, just another healer period, it'll wind up a class that sees little use, if any. Hence why I said that FFXIV doesn't need a healer, or at least it doesn't right now.

But then how could you move forward if you don't add new pieces to the puzzle? Even with what you said, this is -going- to happen, I know for a fact they are going to keep adding new classes and jobs into this game for a long time, so why not add what people want? Viable alternatives.
It can only get better. And besides, with easier or smaller scale content things like Rdm (just as an example, and we're talking possible things in XIV not XI) might be good, heck it might add an alternative playstyle altogether that makes less skilled players able to finish certain content. Let's say you have a party of 1 Pld/War and 7 Rdm, that would be pretty easy seeing as everyone can do both jobs (bar tank roles) but since they aren't "top tier" dps they won't exactly be getting any speed runs any time soon. It keeps the difference between the hardcore and casual while appealing to both. But this is just an example, I only want you to see the optimistic point of view here.

[Urthdigger]

I am not saying that nobody could ever find a use for it. I am saying the community at large won't regard them as useful. Sure, there are niche cases where people will find hybrid classes like that useful, but the vast majority of players would prefer to invite someone for one role, trusting that they can fulfill that one role well.

I understand that new things need to be added to move forward, but it's about doing everything in good time. Before we add a hybrid class, we need to give players a REASON to want a hybrid class, outside of simply adding variety to the healing role.

[BlueMage]

I'm a fan of having multiple classes able to fill a role (such as being able to invite either a paladin or warrior to tank) and also a fan of classes being able to fill multiple roles (such as a warrior being able to tank or melee DPS).

I agree there should be another healer option. Perhaps that aspect of BRD could be buffed, with additional songs that help it fill a mainhealer role. Another possibility is making it so PLD could have a mainhealer mode, similar to how WAR has tank and DD modes. Of course, a new class that could mainheal is always an option too.

In addition, I wouldn't mind if they buffed MNK so it could tank better.

As for the viability of classes/roles, I mainly play my DRG and don't have any trouble finding a place in groups. People aren't beating down my inn room door demanding I join, like they would with a WHM, but its not like I'm some leper/pariah, as some people claim all non-WAR/WHM/BLMs are treated.

[Niqote]

Dancer from FF11 was an awesome job. It could not main heal but it could heal great and buff and DPS.

^ this.
I'd love to see a support based gypsy / dancer ... and then I'd want to actually play another job other then Whm XD ... or Smn... can't wait for Smn

[Duelle]

you can do that without having a main healer. see my examples? it improves the roster and improves healing, but doesn't compete with WHMs slot on a team.

And again, no class or job should hog a role slot. PLD should not be the only tank. WHM should not be the only healer. You can build off different styles of healing so that people who perhaps don't like WHM but may enjoy how Green Mage heals have an option and it encourages them to take the mantle of the healer. This in effect increases the healer pool, which is a good thing.

if all you want is another back-up healer bring a PLD.

Don't burden the tank with having to heal. They already have enough to worry about.

simply having another main healer reminds me of SMN in FFXI. felt so bad for that class as they didn't really get to do what they really wanted in fights: smn. they were just spamming cures. and occasionally throwing out a buff. i don't want to see that happen again.

That's more due to SMN's completely garbage design and the developers' fears of it being super OP under any other circumstances. SMN's woes had absolutely nothing to do with having multiple healing classes in a game.

Regulated heals. HoTs. Smart heals. Burst heals. There's plenty of room for different types of healers, you just have to look for yourself.

Well at any rate, Im sure the first thing they will do is add rdm. I was kinda hoping it would be more of a melee class, but jobs never turn out how we hoped. After all, Ninja was never suppose to be a tank, and DNC was suppose to be a healer not a solo job, lol.

That's due to developer apathy. Any other developer team would have used CoP as an excuse to rebuild Red Mage and nerf Utsusemi to the ground. And DNC would have been adjusted until it was where it was intended to be by the devs.

And I hope they introduce Fencer, and make it the parent class for Red Mage.

[Pachisu89]

how that going to work? >.> cant use cure II... then it's not a back up healer The End.