More Healing (specific) Classes

[Urthdigger]

FFXIV actually doesn't need a second healer class. At least, not right now.

The question is "What would this new job do that WHM cannot?", and there isn't really a lot that they can do. WHM already gets two tiers of cures, an area of effect cure, and a heal over time. A lot of the responses people are giving are things like "Make a hybrid class that heals, like RDM or SCH from FFXI." Thing is though, we already have those.

How would a RDM differ from a paladin with cure set in any way? How is Scholar any different than a thaumaturge with cure set? Being a healer is mostly about that one ability. True, a marauder using cure isn't going to be as effective as a white mage, but anyone who thinks that a hybrid should heal as well as the best healer needs to have their head examined.

[AmyNeudaiz]

FFXIV actually doesn't need a second healer class. At least, not right now.

The question is "What would this new job do that WHM cannot?", and there isn't really a lot that they can do. WHM already gets two tiers of cures, an area of effect cure, and a heal over time. A lot of the responses people are giving are things like "Make a hybrid class that heals, like RDM or SCH from FFXI." Thing is though, we already have those.

Uhh, decent dps for one? Whm can't do decent dps and no, we don't have a real job that has a decent ability to heal and maintain dps, if you say Brd I may resort to violence. Brd -can not- heal well whatsoever, I'm sorry but 300 per cure is a joke.

How would a RDM differ from a paladin with cure set in any way? How is Scholar any different than a thaumaturge with cure set? Being a healer is mostly about that one ability. True, a marauder using cure isn't going to be as effective as a white mage, but anyone who thinks that a hybrid should heal as well as the best healer needs to have their head examined.

Again, dps. Pld can't dps and Pld also can't really heal well seeing as it has such a small MP pool and it's main source of getting MP back is by tanking which it can't do if it's pretending to be a Rdm.

[Urthdigger]

I'm sorry but 300 per cure is a joke.

And therein lies the heart of the matter. So long as WHM heals for better than whatever healer comes out, people are going to want the WHM over it. If it heals better than WHM, then it invalidates WHM.

Another thing to keep in mind with the frequent hybrid idea is that you'll most likely wind up with something that deals damage like a PLD and heals like a BRD. Or, at the very least, people will assume it does.

[AmyNeudaiz]

And therein lies the heart of the matter. So long as WHM heals for better than whatever healer comes out, people are going to want the WHM over it. If it heals better than WHM, then it invalidates WHM.

Another thing to keep in mind with the frequent hybrid idea is that you'll most likely wind up with something that deals damage like a PLD and heals like a BRD. Or, at the very least, people will assume it does.

A cure for 1000 like Pld would more be what a DPS/Healer should have. You really don't get what the people who want hybrids want I guess, not a replacement for Whm but a DPS that is able to assist the party. Typically this means a lower mana pool, refresh capability of MP reduced (weapon out = almost no refresh) all while putting up with dealing damage and being smart enough to not take hate with their version of cures. Brd can not do this, it is completely ineffective with cures and its dps is laughable to other jobs. Trust me, I played a lot of Brd before I got tired of doing crap damage and not being able to cure effectively.

[Urthdigger]

A cure for 1000 like Pld would more be what a DPS/Healer should have. You really don't get what the people who want hybrids want I guess, not a replacement for Whm but a DPS that is able to assist the party. Typically this means a lower mana pool, refresh capability of MP reduced (weapon out = almost no refresh) all while putting up with dealing damage and being smart enough to not take hate with their version of cures. Brd can not do this, it is completely ineffective with cures and its dps is laughable to other jobs. Trust me, I played a lot of Brd before I got tired of doing crap damage and not being able to cure effectively.

I do understand what people who want hybrids want to have. I also know that the closest they'll get is Paladin. Yes, I know Paladin supposedly has shitty DPS. There's a reason why people in MMOs have a tendency to stack a single class, like black mages. It's because people would rather find the best job for a given specific role, and just that role. People in MMOs don't generally tend to trust each other. In a random pickup group, would you want your healer to be on a class that doesn't heal as well, and pray that he remembers to actually heal the party while he's trying to boost his epeen numbers DPSing? Or would you rather he come as a healer and focus on that role?

A prime example of the issue with such a hybrid class would be Red Mage from FFXI. Now, I know what you're thinking, people loved RDM, but you need to look at the reason WHY. RDM was designed as a hybrid class, able to melee, heal, and nuke. Instead, you never saw RDMs nuke, or melee, you only saw them heal because stats meant jack for healing (See also how bard and summoner were used as healers) and they had refresh. It didn't matter if you knew you could outdamage the thief, lolrdmmelee.

Also, go give THM with cure a shot, assuming you allocated to INT and MND. Sounds like a decent DPS/cure combo.

[Urthdigger]

I would LIKE there to be change and for people to play a wide variety of classes. I'm just a pessimist who understands the reasons why people don't. Adding a hybrid class would most likely wind up with a class that nobody invites to parties. You said it yourself, we're "stuck with just Whm heal, War tank, Blm DD and everything else being considered inefficient because there are lacking pieces of the puzzle".

If we just drop a hybrid into the game as it is... or hell, just another healer period, it'll wind up a class that sees little use, if any. Hence why I said that FFXIV doesn't need a healer, or at least it doesn't right now.

[AmyNeudaiz]

I would LIKE there to be change and for people to play a wide variety of classes. I'm just a pessimist who understands the reasons why people don't. Adding a hybrid class would most likely wind up with a class that nobody invites to parties. You said it yourself, we're "stuck with just Whm heal, War tank, Blm DD and everything else being considered inefficient because there are lacking pieces of the puzzle".

If we just drop a hybrid into the game as it is... or hell, just another healer period, it'll wind up a class that sees little use, if any. Hence why I said that FFXIV doesn't need a healer, or at least it doesn't right now.

But then how could you move forward if you don't add new pieces to the puzzle? Even with what you said, this is -going- to happen, I know for a fact they are going to keep adding new classes and jobs into this game for a long time, so why not add what people want? Viable alternatives.
It can only get better. And besides, with easier or smaller scale content things like Rdm (just as an example, and we're talking possible things in XIV not XI) might be good, heck it might add an alternative playstyle altogether that makes less skilled players able to finish certain content. Let's say you have a party of 1 Pld/War and 7 Rdm, that would be pretty easy seeing as everyone can do both jobs (bar tank roles) but since they aren't "top tier" dps they won't exactly be getting any speed runs any time soon. It keeps the difference between the hardcore and casual while appealing to both. But this is just an example, I only want you to see the optimistic point of view here.

[Urthdigger]

I am not saying that nobody could ever find a use for it. I am saying the community at large won't regard them as useful. Sure, there are niche cases where people will find hybrid classes like that useful, but the vast majority of players would prefer to invite someone for one role, trusting that they can fulfill that one role well.

I understand that new things need to be added to move forward, but it's about doing everything in good time. Before we add a hybrid class, we need to give players a REASON to want a hybrid class, outside of simply adding variety to the healing role.

[BlueMage]

I'm a fan of having multiple classes able to fill a role (such as being able to invite either a paladin or warrior to tank) and also a fan of classes being able to fill multiple roles (such as a warrior being able to tank or melee DPS).

I agree there should be another healer option. Perhaps that aspect of BRD could be buffed, with additional songs that help it fill a mainhealer role. Another possibility is making it so PLD could have a mainhealer mode, similar to how WAR has tank and DD modes. Of course, a new class that could mainheal is always an option too.

In addition, I wouldn't mind if they buffed MNK so it could tank better.

As for the viability of classes/roles, I mainly play my DRG and don't have any trouble finding a place in groups. People aren't beating down my inn room door demanding I join, like they would with a WHM, but its not like I'm some leper/pariah, as some people claim all non-WAR/WHM/BLMs are treated.