Respect the pull timer.

[Atelier-Bagur]

a console player could write 'wait' doesnt take long... or even make a macro. to indicate he needs time to write more.
doesnt matter how you play, as soon as you play together with other people you have to be able to communicate with them

thats true, unless the rest of the party is on the move constantly. I normally like to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to just casual stuff like dungeons, raids or trials. Savage though yeah you need to at least be able to communicate.

[Asari5]

it doesnt really matter what content. if you consider dungeons casual content then you wont need to communicate. but if you're new, limited in some way or belong to the weaker player then you'll have to communicate in dungeons as well.

[Kolaina]

Without speaking up I will simply assume the worse and seek a replacement.

I will make my own assumptions based off my past experiences.

That’s definitely a YOU problem. Shame you feel the need to dismiss a player who simply made a mistake and may potentially be learning because of something you haven’t learned to heal from.

[Bobby66]

That’s definitely a YOU problem. Shame you feel the need to dismiss a player who simply made a mistake and may potentially be learning because of something you haven’t learned to heal from.

Shame on me? How am I supposed to know they are new and needed help? I asked, and I got no answer. In the end could have been avoided if they just bought a simple $10-15 dollar keyboard off amazon, or simply said something like sorry new while dead, or had preset macros with phrases like New, still adjusting. Many things could have been done on their part. Yet none of these attempts were made so yeah I assumed the worse. Cause if they could not take the time out prior to run to setup macros, buy a cheap keyboard, or even during the run simply write out "Sorry New" why should we deal with it? Remember, you cannot kick someone until 5 min has passed, that means they had 5 min to say sorry new at the very least. Sure some are more patient, I am not.

You know there is the possibility of them being a console player. Typing with a controller is just tricky and I imagine not a lot of people know how to properly do it.

I also know there is the possibility they were trying to leech off the group, they could have easily said something during the time they were dead.

thats true, unless the rest of the party is on the move constantly. I normally like to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to just casual stuff like dungeons, raids or trials. Savage though yeah you need to at least be able to communicate.

I can respect that, personally not a fan of giving someone a pass because the content can be done with only two people. Just because something is easy does not mean a player should get a pass imo. That said, if they spoke up this would not have been an issue, for whatever reason any lack of communion shows they do nor respect the time of others. As stated a console player easily could have macros setup, sure it would take time out to setup said macros without a keyboard but it is a one and done thing. Have ones that say they are on console with no keyboard, that they are new, that they would like explanations etc . . . may take a couple of hours but hey once your done your done. If they cannot be bothered to make an attempt, I cannot be bothered to give them the benefit of the doubt and simply let it slide.

[Kolaina]

Shame on me? How am I supposed to know they are new and needed help? I asked, and I got no answer. In the end could have been avoided if they just bought a simple $10-15 dollar keyboard off amazon, or simply said something like sorry new while dead, or had preset macros with phrases like New, still adjusting. Many things could have been done on their part. Yet none of these attempts were made so yeah I assumed the worse. Cause if they could not take the time out prior to run to setup macros, buy a cheap keyboard, or even during the run simply write out "Sorry New" why should we deal with it? Remember, you cannot kick someone until 5 min has passed, that means they had 5 min to say sorry new at the very least. Sure some are more patient, I am not.



I also know there is the possibility they were trying to leech off the group, they could have easily said something during the time they were dead.

Or… you could be patient. Give people the benefit of the doubt. See if they learn when given advice. People shouldn’t need to spend money to appease you. Shouldn’t feel pressured to be social if they don’t want to. You also shouldn’t br kicking at the first sign of a struggle which is what you suggest you are doing.

Trolls are obvious. Screwing up a mechanic or not understanding something does not equal trolling. Slow down. Stay calm and lay off the vote kick just cause you’ve had “previous experiences” which also may just be you reading into something that isn’t actually there

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I... kinda relate on Bobby66 a lot on that specific circumstance.

It's not the norm, but when it happens, it's very frustrating when all we wanted is to communicate so we can ensure a better chance to complete the duty. Silence is not equal to trolling, not participating, that's true. But it's also not equal to participating and cooperating. It's up in the air. Each wipes contributes to the tension and that silence can be taken the wrong way, just as a poor communication can do. These wipes can happen even in normal contents.

Try getting 1-2 silent DPSes that does not focus the adds in correct order in Innocence Normal without shield healers. (you will die to excessive slash resistance debuff)
Try getting unresponsive tanks who do not perform LB3 to get through a12n, Endsinger, and/or Seat of Sacrifice. (you will die to their ultimate raidwide)
Try getting muted tanks that had no clue which add they needed to grab attention from in Titania Normal.

Maybe they don't respond but somehow do it correctly at next attempt? Great! Bravado! But what if they attempt the same approach and wiped the party again (and again) with no sign of response and/or improvements? At that point it's either vote to dismiss, or use the door yourselves.

[Bobby66]

Or… you could be patient. Give people the benefit of the doubt. See if they learn when given advice. People shouldn’t need to spend money to appease you. Shouldn’t feel pressured to be social if they don’t want to. You also shouldn’t br kicking at the first sign of a struggle which is what you suggest you are doing.

Trolls are obvious. Screwing up a mechanic or not understanding something does not equal trolling. Slow down. Stay calm and lay off the vote kick just cause you’ve had “previous experiences” which also may just be you reading into something that isn’t actually there

My edited point addresses the whole benefit of the doubt thing.

"I can respect that, personally not a fan of giving someone a pass because the content can be done with only two people. Just because something is easy does not mean a player should get a pass imo. That said, if they spoke up this would not have been an issue, for whatever reason any lack of communion shows they do nor respect the time of others. As stated a console player easily could have macros setup, sure it would take time out to setup said macros without a keyboard but it is a one and done thing. Have ones that say they are on console with no keyboard, that they are new, that they would like explanations etc . . . may take a couple of hours but hey once your done your done. If they cannot be bothered to make an attempt, I cannot be bothered to give them the benefit of the doubt and simply let it slide."

Goes both ways I should not be pressured to be patient, and more understanding.

[Kolaina]

My edited point addresses the whole benefit of the doubt thing.

"I can respect that, personally not a fan of giving someone a pass because the content can be done with only two people. Just because something is easy does not mean a player should get a pass imo. That said, if they spoke up this would not have been an issue, for whatever reason any lack of communion shows they do nor respect the time of others. As stated a console player easily could have macros setup, sure it would take time out to setup said macros without a keyboard but it is a one and done thing. Have ones that say they are on console with no keyboard, that they are new, that they would like explanations etc . . . may take a couple of hours but hey once your done your done. If they cannot be bothered to make an attempt, I cannot be bothered to give them the benefit of the doubt and simply let it slide."

Goes both ways I should not be pressured to be patient, and more understanding.

Again, and last time as it’s going to continue to be back and forth between us. A person is not obligated to speak to you. It’s not because they don’t respect you or your time. Some people just don’t want to be social. Some may not see the justification in purchasing a keyboard to be social when they aren’t playing a game for that reason. Just because you have a keyboard and want to talk or deem it necessary for a person to explain why they made any mistake to you, does not mean they see it that way.

People may not respond for many reasons. Could be an introvert. Maybe they don’t speak a certain language. Or they could be illiterate. I’ve played with a couple where the husband couldn’t read and his wife would speak for him if she was on.

You don’t know why people won’t talk. Nor is it necessarily your business. But because they don’t appease your standard for social interaction, you remove them.

[Bobby66]

Again, and last time as it’s going to continue to be back and forth between us. A person is not obligated to speak to you. It’s not because they don’t respect you or your time. Some people just don’t want to be social. Some may not see the justification in purchasing a keyboard to be social when they aren’t playing a game for that reason. Just because you have a keyboard and want to talk or deem it necessary for a person to explain why they made any mistake to you, does not mean they see it that way.

People may not respond for many reasons. Could be an introvert. Maybe they don’t speak a certain language. Or they could be illiterate. I’ve played with a couple where the husband couldn’t read and his wife would speak for him if she was on.

You don’t know why people won’t talk. Nor is it necessarily your business. But because they don’t appease your standard for social interaction, you remove them.

Then it is fair to say I am not obligated to play with them, so what exactly is your issue? If they are not obligated to do something to appease others, why should I be obligated to do something to appease others? Also, has less to do with my standards for social interactions, idc if someone does not talk, but if they start to screw up and we as a group ask if everything is okay and get no response at that point it is direct negative impact on the other three people in the group. I rather say shit in dungeons, often not even a hello, but if I am new to something I let the group know right off the rip, so they can curb their expectations. Has less to do with a social standard, or more so simply being considerate to the three, or seven other people in the group. Though that is the issue I have noticed in FFXIV, for some reason the needs of the minatory seem to have greater value then the majority if the group simply because the content is easier.

As you said sure they may not respond for different reasons and that is fine, but when a person starts to make mistakes that end up costing others time, do not be shocked if being silent gets one removed especially if the group knows the silent one is making the mistake.

While, I would not remove a player for being new, if a group wanted to remove me for being new I would not have an issue. Not everyone is entitled to the time of others.

[Bsrking5]

As a console player, I can say for certain that it's not really that bad with the on screen keyboard. I've called out plenty of people only to get ignored. That's a kick from me, idgaf what your excuse is. Anyone defending it is making up reason for people to troll over others. It's not being an introvert, there's the auto translate so another language is just a lie, if they are illiterate they shouldn't be playing a game the requires this much reading. If they're the problem and refuse to respond, then they deserve the kick.