stop take the skills in lower level content.

[flowerfairy]

Isn't it better to just make the lower level rotations better? Like, introduce the core of their endgame kits as older buttons that were removed before? MNK is a good example of this.

I said it before, but just imagine a lvl 90 SMN dropping giant primals on level 15 Sastasha bats... Of course, a sprout's first reaction is going to be "woah that looks cool" but then it'll get old pretty fast. This is a game that boasts its story telling, so I think immersion is a big part of it too... You can say "well glamours are immersion breaking" but I think a Roe in a santa outfit is less harmful to a sprout's first experience than extremely flashy moves that do no damage to a bum pirate.

Not to mention, how exactly would you balance healer and tank kits in old content? I haven't seen an answer to this yet.

[magitekLuna]

Isn't it better to just make the lower level rotations better? Like, introduce the core of their endgame kits as older buttons that were removed before? MNK is a good example of this.

I said it before, but just imagine a lvl 90 SMN dropping giant primals on level 15 Sastasha bats... Of course, a sprout's first reaction is going to be "woah that looks cool" but then it'll get old pretty fast. This is a game that boasts its story telling, so I think immersion is a big part of it too... You can say "well glamours are immersion breaking" but I think a Roe in a santa outfit is less harmful to a sprout's first experience than extremely flashy moves that do no damage to a bum pirate.

Not to mention, how exactly would you balance healer and tank kits in old content? I haven't seen an answer to this yet.

or the new player see how good it is later on and want to try a job he did not think of. you take it to a place of insecure snowflake way to fast.

[R041]

Isn't it better to just make the lower level rotations better? Like, introduce the core of their endgame kits as older buttons that were removed before? MNK is a good example of this.

I said it before, but just imagine a lvl 90 SMN dropping giant primals on level 15 Sastasha bats... Of course, a sprout's first reaction is going to be "woah that looks cool" but then it'll get old pretty fast. This is a game that boasts its story telling, so I think immersion is a big part of it too... You can say "well glamours are immersion breaking" but I think a Roe in a santa outfit is less harmful to a sprout's first experience than extremely flashy moves that do no damage to a bum pirate.

Not to mention, how exactly would you balance healer and tank kits in old content? I haven't seen an answer to this yet.

I think that's fine too - But we get nothing but cut, cut, cut, stretch, stretch, stretch. Nothing in return but lesser play over time. Lower levels will continue to get worse and culled over time, while we'll still be forced to play them 10 years later.

We're at a breaking point, and we can't really stretch these rotations any further than they are. If Yoshi really expects to keep with the 30 button cap, then we'll just be adding new modifiers to our existing abilities. XIV is now trying to do what other Themepark MMOs have previously hit and failed to push past with the same method, we're at the great Themepark Firewall.

What exactly is there to balance for Tanks and Healers, it's not like they do anything different. WoW has already fixed this issue by scaling the mobs up to each individual player, so the potency is relative. Then if you're really afraid of showing cool spells because it might seem spoilery, then hide or change the visual for anyone that hasn't reached that tier yet.

Let's see how much fun you're having when SAM's Ogi is reduced to around 85-120 potency in order to properly scale it down to a lv15 dungeon.

You know what's funny is Duty Support already does this. It just doesn't tell you. The NPCs will do less or more damage based on how well you're doing.

[Gemina]

I think that's fine too - But we get nothing but cut, cut, cut, stretch, stretch, stretch. Nothing in return but lesser play over time. Lower levels will continue to get worse and culled over time, while we'll still be forced to play them 10 years later.

Lower levels have been the same for years. With the exception of some cherry picked dungeons they've updated to make them less tedious such as Toto Rak, Copperbell Mines, Keeper of the Lake, etc. The only reason why lower level get worse, is due to player mentality. It has nothing to do with the lower level content. You are also not forced to run any of these instances. You are choosing to run them.

We're at a breaking point, and we can't really stretch these rotations any further than they are. If Yoshi really expects to keep with the 30 button cap, then we'll just be adding new modifiers to our existing abilities. XIV is now trying to do what other Themepark MMOs have previously hit and failed to push past with the same method, we're at the great Themepark Firewall.

No we're not. You the player might be at a breaking point, but the game sure isn't. The threshold for buttons to push is not constricted to controller users as many would have you believe. This limit is based on a number that is sensible for players to have. Some jobs have been suffering to having a high APM since HW, and perhaps even ARR but my time in this game does not go back that far. This is not a turn based game. For a single player game, having a high number of available abilities is one method that counteracts the turn based style of combat so you have to think more about which ability to use, and when. For a game like FFXIV, it's more about a song and dance that has you learn a fixed rotation, and try to keep it going alongside doing mechanics that try to break this rotation.

What exactly is there to balance for Tanks and Healers, it's not like they do anything different. WoW has already fixed this issue by scaling the mobs up to each individual player, so the potency is relative. Then if you're really afraid of showing cool spells because it might seem spoilery, then hide or change the visual for anyone that hasn't reached that tier yet.

Are you kidding? Could you imagine giving AST Macrocosmos at the earliest possible level. I already call it "Busted-Cosmos" for lv90 content. The ability quite literally erases damage incurred by players wither it is unavoidable or avoidable. How about giving WAR Bloodwhetting early on? Again, healers already don't have to worry about WAR much in lv90 content. In a dungeon like Qarn though, healers are going to have to use GCD heals to keep the tank up. For healers and tank, I would say content is more fun early on when they have fewer tools to accomplish their primary duties. In latter levels, we need constant damage going out in order to keep us engaged.

[Midareyukki]

Lower levels have been the same for years.

I half-agree with Gemina.

I agree that we definitely don't need EVERY single class skill off the bat. Some skills are clearly strong for the sort of content they'd appear, Macrocosmos being one such case.

However, some stuff should definitely be pushed earlier. Especially stuff that make the class perform better in their role than just relying on generic cooldowns and stats (TBN and equivalent), or stuff that's just generally better overall to have (access to AoE skills prior to lv 40, certain healing options and resources).

[Deceptus]

I half-agree with Gemina.

I agree that we definitely don't need EVERY single class skill off the bat. Some skills are clearly strong for the sort of content they'd appear, Macrocosmos being one such case.

However, some stuff should definitely be pushed earlier. Especially stuff that make the class perform better in their role than just relying on generic cooldowns and stats (TBN and equivalent), or stuff that's just generally better overall to have (access to AoE skills prior to lv 40, certain healing options and resources).

Every single dps should get an simple AoE by level 15. DRG having to wait until lvl 40 is ridiculous, Nin at 38. There's no functional reason not too. Tanks get theirs earlier so aggro isn't a concern.

DRK should get a weaker TBN "The Black Night" at lvl 50 (10-15% shield) that upgrades to TBN because they are squishy AF at that range.

Let's see how much fun you're having when SAM's Ogi is reduced to around 85-120 potency in order to properly scale it down to a lv15 dungeon. Even though this would not be the true potency, it's how scaling works. Very much like how Embraces from SCH's fairy is not the same as if the SCH heals for the same potency from their own abilities. The discrepancy only gets bigger and bigger the higher the level of the SCH. If the devs granted players the ability to utilize their full max level rotation in lower content, your abilities will be nerfed right into the ground in order to accommodate the HP values of the enemies. They can't raise the HP levels of the enemies and bosses, otherwise the players who just meet the requirements for the instance would be placed at a huge disadvantage.

Everything scaling off of weapon damage would largely fix that. A 100 potency attack that takes a whopping 10 hp off the enemy would only take 30 hp off if the potency is 300.

Lv sync does not exist to coddle players who have yet to reach the higher levels in the game. It exists to place all the players in the instance on the same and equal playing field. If this is not fun for you, then don't run lower level content.

But at the same time it should be engaging, otherwise it disencentivizes players from joining the DF roulettes. I haven't touched 5678 in years because it's just not fun and the rewards largely are bad.

After I hit 90, I stopped with leveling as well simply because getting stuck in Sashta sucks (IMHO). If I wanted to spam one button for 20 minutes I'd play a healer, not a tank or a DPS