What if Support Role was Added to FFXIV?

[Atelier-Bagur]

Your post history is riddled with ad-hominems - attacking and generalizing instead of replying to the actual comment's contents. You had an opportunity to reply to my post for discussion's sake, but chose to attack the forum and myself as you often do.

Then we'll get into an argument because I snap back. I'm not a better person. lol

I see you doing the same thing to multiple people in different threads right this second. It's like you think we're in forum pvp.

If you seriously think disagreeing with people is considered "attacking" then...ok I guess. But thats not what Im ultimately try to do. I tend to be sarcastic or just meme honestly with many of my posts but I still put in some effort to voice my own sound opinions.

[R041]

If you seriously think disagreeing with people is considered "attacking" then...ok I guess. But thats not what Im ultimately try to do. I tend to be sarcastic or just meme honestly with many of my posts but I still put in some effort to voice my own sound opinions.

That's fair - I just see most of your memes are kinda framed in a way that makes it seem like you want to stifle their talking point. That's just how I see it, I don't know what your actual intentions are you know.. Just like other people wouldn't. :/

[dspguy]

ARR BRD was probably the closest to a support class we've had - well, maybe include AST back when the cards had specific bonuses.

ARR BRD could debuff enemy magic defense, they could restore TP or MP as well as movement speed out of battle. With changes they made to the game over the last near-decade, all that's left is movement speed. Honestly, BRD's support kit was still bad, but it was possibly the "best" FFXIV had to offer.

The holy trinity of roles simply doesn't allow for true support classes in this game - I'm talking about FFXI BRD or EQ1 BRD and Enchanter. Classes that focused mostly on buffing, debuffing and crowd control.

[R041]

ARR BRD was probably the closest to a support class we've had - well, maybe include AST back when the cards had specific bonuses.

I'm still a salty AST.

[Avoidy]

I'm still a salty AST.

I missed the chance to play AST like this by about a month and it'll always make me sad.

[Gemina]

I missed the chance to play AST like this by about a month and it'll always make me sad.

Don't be sad. I fixed it:



What not many around here will tell you is that old AST cards were an illusion of choice. Your party did not care for any other card other than the Balance, and you used them only when your abilities used to mitigate the layers of RNG was still not enough to get an AoE Balance to throw out. IOW, the other five cards were compensation when luck was just not in your favor as you always strived to get a Balance drawn from your deck. Even back then, the other roles had their own abilities that function the same as these cards, and some like the Arrow could hinder the speed builds some players would achieve with their melds. They were at best situational, and very niche. It was a mess, but a mess some AST for whatever reason loved dealing with.

Now don't get me wrong. These cards provided strong buffs for the party. However, FFXIV's encounter design does not allow for for such abilities to be RNG based. Their availability needs to be on demand, and not tied to RNG. AST still isn't quite there yet, and the cards are getting yet another rework in 7.0. But it will never, ever revert back to the system it was prior to ShB. FFXIV is designed entirely around damage. The damage going out/received by both party and enemy. Support exists only through this path. AST accomplishes this by being able to give consistent and steady damage buffs to their party members, and is a major part of not only their identity, but also greatly helps make up for their low personal DPS.

[Raven2014]

Don't be sad. I fixed it:

Yeah, 3.0 AST seem to be a prime example of the rose-tinted class. It was changed because it was just a lot of fat nobody wanted. Party even willing to wait for the AST to keep re-drawing until they get a balance card before pull. The current system isn't great, but still a lot better than the old, and the old system would suck even more in the current design then it was back then. I mean ... I'm sure a lot of people know the "Balance" Discord. Think about the implication how relevant the meme was for it to be adopted as the name of such a DPS focus community.

It was a mess, but a mess some AST for whatever reason loved dealing with.

I have never personally speak with any AST "at that time" said they love the card system. That kind of talk has only popped up once enough time had past and nostalgia set in. If they ever bring back the 3.0 card system, I'm willing to bet my in game house the community will not stand for it pass the one month mark.


And I just want to say this: this is yet just another example of how much the game had lost when they remove the majority of utility management from the game and make everything about DPS and DPS only. People complain about AST card are just all damage buff now ... sure, I don't like it either ... but what else you want the card do beside buffing damage? TP is gone. Why do people need MP when they can maintain full MP even in zero piety gears? Outside of ultimate we have enough mitigatition that even if half of your party forgot to hit their mit (PF meme) it's still ok. We already have more healing potency than we ever know what to do with. With how strict raid buff window is most DPS ain't gonna risk having their rotation desyn or drift due to unexpected and unreliable GCD, so giving SPS/SkS card out randomly may even be considered griefing.

Yeah, every card doing the same thing sucks, but that's because there is nothing else that they can do meaningfully.

[dspguy]

I'm still a salty AST.

I played AST before the change. It was actually interesting. I don't know how they fared DPS-wise (which is the barometer everyone uses for everything in this game), but it was very enjoyable to play.

[Shurrikhan]

ARR BRD was probably the closest to a support class we've had.

HW BRD (and MCH) no less so, unless you count being the go-to to do what few movement mechanics could be baited by anyone as a "Support Action". Those tools didn't get gutted down to simple use-on-cooldown CDs until Stormblood.

ARR BRD could debuff enemy magic defense, they could restore TP or MP as well as movement speed out of battle. With changes they made to the game over the last near-decade, all that's left is movement speed. Honestly, BRD's support kit was still bad, but it was possibly the "best" FFXIV had to offer.

Sadly true.

The holy trinity of roles simply doesn't allow for true support classes in this game - I'm talking about FFXI BRD or EQ1 BRD and Enchanter. Classes that focused mostly on buffing, debuffing and crowd control.

It... can. Just, not through the way XIV has increasingly come to imagine that trinity, nor with how content it's been to have so few undermechanics.

But if you imagine a bunch of buffs usually used on oneself rotationally but now available to be leveraged to greater effect by being used on others... yeah, that's doable, and that'd be pretty near to those "true" support classes. We just need more things available in game (under)mechanically to actually... do. At present not having the actions isn't even the bottleneck; there are scarcely any interesting mechanics to create them for nor encounters to leverage them in/with.

[hydralus]

We've already got 2 roles with savior complexes we don't need a third.