Scale back Critical Hit

[Raven2014]

I think I remember reading somewhere about Yoshida wanting to redesign secondaries at some point but I am not sure where he talked about it. I agree, Tenacity is a junk stat because of how poorly it scales and how little the damage reduction matters with the biggest concern being tank busters instead of steady damage throughout a fight along with healers being very strong in the healing department. I wish there was a way to make skill speed akin to haste stat in FFXI, but unfortunately that would require a major combat rework to make auto-attacks more impactful and have a lot more of your skills CDs affected by the stat (bringing us closer to WoW combat I guess :/ ). Piety is more or less a junk stat I imagine got implemented because the people who redesigned substats in ShB ran out of ideas and if I had to guess and expected MP economy to matter at some level.

The issue with Tenacity is two fold:

First problem, tank has too many defensive CD already, and all the TB mechanic has always been about them using their CD correctly to survive. Tenacity never really played a role in determining whether the tank live or die to a buster.

That leave Tenacity as a damage reduction stat is only meaningful for AOE and Auto attack. Tank pretty much just shrug off the former, and auto-attack come down to one thing: how often does a healer has to heal you for auto? Basically, it needs to reduce the damage from auto enough that it will save the healer one single target heal. The issue is ... healer's single heal are very strong, so the damage reduction have to be massive as well, otherwise all it does it adds overheal on the healer, which is the second problem.

Frankly the tank design in FF14 does not really lend itself to a passive "tank" stat. Pretty much all of their defensive cool down are duration base instead of hit base (like TBN). For example, in dungeon, with proper CD tank can have almost have 100% up time on their mit unless the DPS is really bad, and thus passive damage reduction is negligible.

[Amenara]

The issue with Tenacity is two fold:

First problem, tank has too many defensive CD already, and all the TB mechanic has always been about them using their CD correctly to survive. Tenacity never really played a role in determining whether the tank live or die to a buster.

That leave Tenacity as a damage reduction stat is only meaningful for AOE and Auto attack. Tank pretty much just shrug off the former, and auto-attack come down to one thing: how often does a healer has to heal you for auto? Basically, it needs to reduce the damage from auto enough that it will save the healer one single target heal. The issue is ... healer's single heal are very strong, so the damage reduction have to be massive as well, otherwise all it does it adds overheal on the healer, which is the second problem.

Frankly the tank design in FF14 does not really lend itself to a passive "tank" stat. Pretty much all of their defensive cool down are duration base instead of hit base (like TBN). For example, in dungeon, with proper CD tank can have almost have 100% up time on their mit unless the DPS is really bad, and thus passive damage reduction is negligible.

100% agree, and that's not even talking about self-healing on tanks. All of this is kind of why I'd prefer they just go back to the drawing board when it comes to secondary stats since it looks like they are just going to double down on current combat design and not change that.

[baklava151]

That leave Tenacity as a damage reduction stat is only meaningful for AOE and Auto attack. Tank pretty much just shrug off the former, and auto-attack come down to one thing: how often does a healer has to heal you for auto? Basically, it needs to reduce the damage from auto enough that it will save the healer one single target heal. The issue is ... healer's single heal are very strong, so the damage reduction have to be massive as well, otherwise all it does it adds overheal on the healer, which is the second problem.

Not only that but autos also just don't hit that frequently. In savage it always seems like the boss does like 3 or 4 autos before it starts casting something which stops autos, and often during mechanics (Snake and Centaur in P8S for example) there's just none going out. Still good to try to have a mit up for them when you can but yeah, not enough to want to stack tenacity.

[Themarvin]

The issue with Tenacity is two fold:

First problem, tank has too many defensive CD already, and all the TB mechanic has always been about them using their CD correctly to survive. Tenacity never really played a role in determining whether the tank live or die to a buster.

That leave Tenacity as a damage reduction stat is only meaningful for AOE and Auto attack. Tank pretty much just shrug off the former, and auto-attack come down to one thing: how often does a healer has to heal you for auto? Basically, it needs to reduce the damage from auto enough that it will save the healer one single target heal. The issue is ... healer's single heal are very strong, so the damage reduction have to be massive as well, otherwise all it does it adds overheal on the healer, which is the second problem.

Frankly the tank design in FF14 does not really lend itself to a passive "tank" stat. Pretty much all of their defensive cool down are duration base instead of hit base (like TBN). For example, in dungeon, with proper CD tank can have almost have 100% up time on their mit unless the DPS is really bad, and thus passive damage reduction is negligible.

Anything that adds stacks though... if the gear no matter what you do got some of it on then it can really hurt either other than a bit more protection and a bit more damage?