Content geared towards FCs

[Deveryn]

btw, if it feels like an echo chamber, you might actually be wrong.

[MonteCristo]

btw, if it feels like an echo chamber, you might actually be wrong.

No...and furthermore there is a HUGE stigma about our community in literally every other place outside of the official forums when it comes to any form of criticism regarding ffxiv and as someone who has supported since 1.0 beta i think im more than qualified to say.....innovation is long overdue. And for the love of god not everyone wants to keep running old content! im so sick and tired of people bragging like there is so much content stop the cap...glamour is NOT content its glamour!

[Jeeqbit]

No...and furthermore there is a HUGE stigma about our community in literally every other place outside of the official forums when it comes to any form of criticism regarding ffxiv

The stigma comes from people who wilfully ignore how people do criticize the game in a healthy way.

I have conversations in novice networks a lot and elsewhere in the game and when there is something that is legitimately a problem with the game we just all agree that it's a problem and explain that it is to sprouts and move on. For example, people usually universally agree having to go through the base game and 4 expansions worth of MSQ and their patches is daunting to new players and a problem and we are honest about this to sprouts so that they know what they are getting into. We are honest about little annoying things like the clicking people by accident and losing a GCD and just say well, yes, it's a problem and just got to put up with it.

Where people start being excessively positive is when someone else is being excessively negative. It's a glass half-full or glass half-empty thing. Some people are glass half-empty types and just want to be excessively negative as if the glass is entirely empty, so people with a glass half-full perspective try to help them see the positives.

The whole point of the forums is for your idea to be scrutinized. Even if you have a point, we have to play devil's advocate and find any holes in them.

And for the love of god not everyone wants to keep running old content!

Veterans don't but as I explained in an earlier post, the majority of people who play now were not even around in the first half of Stormblood and have a lot to catch up on.

[Jojoya]

No...and furthermore there is a HUGE stigma about our community in literally every other place outside of the official forums when it comes to any form of criticism regarding ffxiv and as someone who has supported since 1.0 beta i think im more than qualified to say.....innovation is long overdue. And for the love of god not everyone wants to keep running old content! im so sick and tired of people bragging like there is so much content stop the cap...glamour is NOT content its glamour!

Few are going to be against innovation.

Trying to force players to join FCs (or a game's equivalent) by locking content access behind FC membership isn't innovation. It's been tried by other games in the past - and failed hard. It's why games no longer do it.

Just because you've done all the content before doesn't mean there isn't a lot of content in the game. Talk to any new player and they are overwhelmed by the amount of content there is.

That is why people need to be playing different games - so they don't keep doing the same thing over and over and over until they're so sick of it they can't do it anymore. There's only so much content a single development team can produce at a time.

Thinking that throwing more bodies at a game solves it is a fallacy. Ask Blizzard what happened when they almost doubled their staff thinking that it would allow them to create and release content faster. We ended up with Warlords of Draenor, arguably the worst expansion in the games history at that time.

Most innovation comes through the need to solve problems that others haven't solved and/or gain an edge in competition. Everyone has their own ideas about what are the problems in the game, and SE may or may not agree. They also may or may not have the ability to address those problems depending on what they are.

Player socialization is not something they can solve. While they can offer content that facilitates socialization, designing that content in such a way as to force players to socialize is a good way to lose players. Not everyone has the same needs and desires for socialization.

[Deveryn]

No...and furthermore there is a HUGE stigma about our community in literally every other place outside of the official forums when it comes to any form of criticism regarding ffxiv and as someone who has supported since 1.0 beta i think im more than qualified to say.....innovation is long overdue. And for the love of god not everyone wants to keep running old content! im so sick and tired of people bragging like there is so much content stop the cap...glamour is NOT content its glamour!

I don't care how long you've been around. That doesn't mean all your ideas are good. If you want to throw out a legit innovative idea, I'm all ears. This is nothing but a poor excuse for laziness in FCs. SE cannot save you from yourselves and your lack of initiative.

[MonteCristo]

I don't care how long you've been around. That doesn't mean all your ideas are good. If you want to throw out a legit innovative idea, I'm all ears. This is nothing but a poor excuse for laziness in FCs. SE cannot save you from yourselves and your lack of initiative.

New school vs ol school...we literally see from 2 different perspectives. Id debate with u but truth be told it doesnt matter cuz the gag is..SE doesnt rly read NA forums so like someone said before this is all banter in the end but for the record you being newer doesn't mean your ideas or POV is valid either. Furthermore, to be very blunt...u likely wont support this game nearly as long as i have and for that reason alone your opinion is valid but doesnt really hold weight because its extremely biased seeing as you arent trying to consider povs of those who have been playing far longer than you have.

[Vidu]

No...and furthermore there is a HUGE stigma about our community in literally every other place outside of the official forums when it comes to any form of criticism regarding ffxiv and as someone who has supported since 1.0 beta i think im more than qualified to say.....innovation is long overdue. And for the love of god not everyone wants to keep running old content! im so sick and tired of people bragging like there is so much content stop the cap...glamour is NOT content its glamour!

Yes, innovation can be a good thing - if you ask me it was a great innovation to move raids into the DF (instead of having to walk up to the entrance to queue for them), the addition of PF was amazing (no more shouting "We need a bard or paladin!" near wineport when one of the 8 people in your static didnt show up on raid day), even adding the more difficult content to DF so that you can give them a shot (more or less successful) even if you dont get a full party together, being able to unsyc content thats not current anymore and thus allowing you to attempt it with a more flexiable number of people, the new Criterion Dungeons that offer a challenge for light parties instead of a full party (so you only work around 4 schedudles instead of 8), even the addition of Squadrons and Trusts, which argueably into more of a solo-experience but also more into the experience of a game you get to play at any time you want instead of a waiting game if you happent to want (or "need") way outside of primehours for your server.

All those things I'd label innovations - those ideas move away from the notion that finding people to play with or waiting around for them to show up is the main appeal of the game and instead make sure that you actually get to play the game.

I'm starting to wonder - how often have you (or anyone wanting more of this mysterious, innovative FC-content) organised some kind of event that required a large number of people to show up at a certain time? I dont want to make assumptions but my guess would: not to often - maybe because it can be frustarting and tiresome? And maybe thats why you want the game to do that for you, basically? But the game cant do that. The game cant change the workhours, timezone differences and other obligations people have outside of the game that lead to clashing scheduldes. I'd like to see the "innovation" that fixes this problem...
You could argue now that we need something that would lead to people making this game their priority - the FC-content would need to be so great that they're willing to make accomodations to take part in it that they're currently not willing to make. And I'm not sure thats really a good idea or something we should really ask for/promote - I'm saying that as someone whos been raiding with a static with 3 timezones for the past few years. In order to do that, some of us stay up a little later than they probably schuld during the week, some get up a little bit earlier than they'd like so they can join us before heading out to work and some rush home from work - its not an ideal situation for anyone, but its the only way this works. And we're willing to do it this way because we enjoy each others company and playing together, so we're making this work somehow.
But I cant imagine this on a bigger scale - currently this is managing 8 people. For FC-content I'd expect it would allow for a lot more people to join - and ideally for less, too. You'd end up picking your FC based on overlapping scheduldes, not on (social) compatibility. You might end up with more "lively" FCs, but not more social ones.
...or it would have no effect at all, because people would decide that its not worth bothering with it in the first place if its impacting their lives and/or enjoyment of the general game to much. Very likely scenario, if Diadem is any hint to go by. In which case we'd have content thats pretty dead, pretty fast.

All in all I cant help but wonder if these requests mostly come from people who dont realise that maintaining realtionships and specially managing large groups (and keeping them together against all odds!) will always take effort. It wont get any easier if there is an extra incentive in the form of content that you only get to see if someone puts in that effort. And I'm wondering how many people who wish for more FC-content would be willing to be the "someone" putting in the effort of setting a date, that most people can make, making sure that no one is excluded, making sure that everyone gets treated fairly (or at least feels like they've been treated fairly), that no one is uncomfortable and that everyone is having fun. Because the game cant be that someone - it can only provide the playground, as it already does. Inviting your friends to come there, will always be up to you. Sure, the playground could always do with more slides and swings and a better sandbox - but getting together will always be up to the players. And if you dont feel like putting in that effort right now with all the toys available... I doubt a new toy, even one thats locked behind "you need so many friends online at the same time", is going to make that any easier.

[LianaThorne]

snip

While it does take effort to put together an event, the amount of frustration/mental effect caused varies from person to person. I am someone who has frequently put together/helped put together events in FF, out of FF and in real life (specifically raves and having to deal with keeping DJs on schedule + hosting) that usually pull betweeen 100-200 people. I don't find them to be mentally draining at all to be honest, in fact it's quite fun and can be a really easy process if you know what you're doing.

One thing I want to point out is that people will show to do their jobs if the "management" treats them well and also provides a good incentive for doing said job. Those who want to just show up to enjoy the event will come if they simply enjoy the environment of your group/enjoy being a part of it. If people aren't showing up or are being lazy about it, that's most likely a sign that things aren't going well behind the scenes on "managements" end and you should probably look into why. If putting together events in general is causing too much stress on your end then maybe consider passing the job off to someone else. I can say from experience that allowing your members to also contribute ideas/help run things also leads to a higher desire to actually want to be there. For example, I actually put together an anniversary event plan for an FC on Aether that had around 400-500 members and it would be a series of activities going on throughout the day at each hour. Each event was ran by a member of the FC (both "management" and non) and they were allowed to do whatever they wanted, whether that's host a game, act out a play, play music, etc. When the event actually happened, I was told that they had a larger crowd than any of their previous years running their old event style & could see a noticable difference in people's excitement for the day. They're still using said event style today to my knowledge.

I also suggested on the first page that the content I had in mind would sync based on the number of people there, removing any actual # requirement of people needing to be online. One person could run it by themselves if they wanted to. It's just an extra activity to give FCs more to do than just provide a space for people to afk in the garden outside of FC held events.

[Vidu]

While it does take effort to put together an event, the amount of frustration/mental effect caused varies from person to person. [snip the rest for length]

I absolutly agree with this statement - thats mainly why I believe adding FC-specific content wont help to revive "dead" FCs or turn FCs into something thats more than "just" a social group (still not sure why thats such a bad thing in the first place). If the FC lacks people who have the "mental capacity" to put together events right now, adding content that requires this wont magically conjure them up. At best it might be a kick in the butt for some, but I would question how lasting this kick would be.

I think instead of asking for FC-exclusive content, it might be better to request or think about tools that would make organising FC-events easier - an ingame FC-calender perhaps where people can put in "events" for the next week (or next two weeks) and FC-members could react to it (like being able to flag that you'll attend said event). Those events could than be anything - from running raids together, to treasure maps to something you've made up yourself. Basically eliminating the need for out-game ressources to let people know when something is happening that they might want to make time for. And yes, I know that in theory the lodestone provides such a feature - and that using Discord is probably what most people are doing right now, but incoorporating this into the game itself instead of having to basically use a second(party) tool would make it more comfortable (at least for me).

I really dont think that theres a lack of content one can do as FC - and I dont think locking content behind FCs is the best way to get FCs to play together. The main issue isnt "theres nothing to do", but organising it. Making that easier could indeed be a good thing.

[MonteCristo]

Not sure why i bothered carry on /salute