Hello! to the Developer Team working on PVP!

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Ranked should simply be removed.

It's obvious that Blizza-- sorry, Square-Enix, is not willing to invest the time or resources necessary to run a game which fosters a healthy competitive environment. Which is fine - I don't think XIV's playerbase is going to be particularly suited to that kind of thing, anyway.

So why is it even an option? Delete ranked entirely, replace it with casual (group) and call it a day. Or, better yet, avoid splitting CC's already small playerbase by not separating queues and just adjust casual to allow 2 players to queue together, and adjust matchmaking to favor placing pairs against other pairs.

The problem, of course, is that removing ranked and adjusting casual would itself take time and resources, and it would also require Square-Enix to admit they fucked up pretty hard. I don't see either of those two things happening. Maybe we'd have more resources if the rest of Square-Enix outside Creative Business Unit 3 wasn't so busy making bonfires using that XIV cash. Didn't they introduce and then abandon two different freemium/mobile titles in 2022 alone? Chocobo Racing lasted, what, like 9 months before they threw all that work into the bin?

What is it with this whole idea that something needs to be removed just because it is currently failing? I see this idea way too often and it is honestly disappointing. Ranked needs improvements, even if it takes them long.

Ranked does not hamper the general pvp experience by existing in its current state - it is not a tumour that warrants removal.

[Gserpent]

Because CC does not have a large, consistent playerbase to begin with, and separate queues further separates that playerbase. Why do you think there's so much caterwauling about ranked queues being dead? Because of the majority of people that participate in CC at all, do so in casual queue. There's no reason for ranked to exist. Seasonal rewards are mutually exclusive with XIV's generally anti-FOMO reward structure, but without meaningful and rare rewards to pursue, there's no point in having it. People don't care about getting the same adventurer plates with a IV instead of a III.

Moreover, ranked queue doesn't even use an actual skill-based matchmaking system. They could and *should* just use any of the numerous Elo-derived systems that other companies have spent literally millions of dollars over the years designing and refining. But they haven't, and we both know they *won't.* If ranked mode isn't truly skill-based, if it's not going to guarantee you games where you are only against players of equivalent skill levels, then why does it exist?

[BubblyBoar]

People don't understand that most people will not do something they don't want to do. All those unique and rare rewards were in PVP before and people still did not flock to the mode like they are CC.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

People don't understand that most people will not do something they don't want to do. All those unique and rare rewards were in PVP before and people still did not flock to the mode like they are CC.

People who keep citing this also don't understand (not you in particular, don't worry) that the reason participation was sparse prior was heavily influenced by:

- the party dynamic (1-1-1-1 of each role) making queue times horrendous (we are talking about less than 5min for one role, up to 3h for another like in season 18/19 with tank)
- enforced trinity system made certain roles either extremely stressful (healer) or unfulfilling to play (tank)
- the queue did not display what roles were needed, let alone for which division / tier
- the Feast game mode was more complicated to execute correctly than people gave it credit for and heavily relied on well executed group bursts, which made early ranks mostly a matter of Healer diff
- the tier rewards (bronze, silver, etc) consisted of outdated tokens for Hellhound weapons that in solitude looked rather meh, nothing got added to that shop nor did the tier rewards improve

So what did they do? They fixed most of these issues, making small-scale PvP extremely accessible for a wider audience and abolished the trinity system for a more individualistic job design, making every class have their unique perks. They also added something nice for the casual players with the battlepass and trophy crystals, letting them obtain the old Hellhound weapons as well.

However they completely dropped the ball on actually incentivising ranked (both tier rewards and high-rank rewards) with something that is unique to ranked.

Crystalline Conflict is fun. I do Casual mode a lot. I'd do ranked as well, but why would I do that if I have no reason to compete, with nothing on the line? Glory and generic titles aren't worth the time, neither is a reused Portrait set with a different roman number and currency I can obtain en masse playing casual.

Sorry for sounding like a broken record, but I just want the mode to thrive again rather than kill it off because some people think it is a waste of <anything>.

[Gserpent]

It will never thrive, though. PvP is side content. Square-Enix's established pattern of handling side content is to *mostly* abandon it once it's out the door. I'm actually surprised we're getting a new map in 6.3, considering new maps is typically a "once an expansion when we remember this exists" kind of thing (how long did we go before Onsal Hakair was our new FL map?), but I think it's high grade hopium to expect them to actually make systemic changes. One, because that will be a lot of work and require a lot of fine-tuning, and two... because it would *require* them to admit they fucked up. And to the people that are paying attention, that they fucked up *for no goddamn reason.* I refuse to credit the idea that Yoshida and whoever else is involved in developing and managing PvP (we know Yoshida is involved because he's said he's a fan of old school MMO-PvP like DAOC etc in interviews... Crystalline Conflict existing at all is almost certainly due to him wanting to do it and not player demand) are somehow aware of trends and concepts in competitive gaming, but aren't aware of the outright necessity for Elo-derived systems for skill-based matchmaking.

I also don't credit ideas that would suggest Yoshida and his crew were unaware of how people like to PvP with their friends. But they still launched the ranked mode without *actual* skill-based matchmaking, they launched casual *without* the ability to play with your buddies, and they have still gone multiple seasons now without meaningful rewards. Shit, they did season 1 without realizing the utter stupidity in not setting it so that achieving a certain tier by the end of the seasons also gives you all of the rewards for previous tiers. And now we're seeing them double down on idiotic moves like "your tier is based on your highest ever placement, not your current placement" and them further expanding the matchmaking range because queues are dying, making the delineation of tiers even less meaningful than they were before. Fuck's sake, just remove everything but Crystal and change Crystal Credit to be a proper Elo system! You're two thirds of the way there, stop pussyfooting and just fucking do it already!

CC Ranked is turning out to be *exactly* like Feast was before it, in all of the worst ways of that old system. There's no reason they couldn't have done better, from the start, because they can easily reference games that have been running for a decade or longer and have made all of the major mistakes, then corrected them, so they can literally see what to avoid when doing their own system. But whether it was hubris, a desire or need to cut work-hour costs, or something else, they thought their garbage Feast system would still work out fine.

I'd rather they just scrap ranked entirely and stop splitting up the already diminished CC playerbase. It's not like there's a goddamn difference between casual and ranked in 90% of games, anyway. Even in crystal, you still have plenty of morons playing like complete monkeys. Because it's not skill-based, and it was never setting out to be. But if that's the case, literally what is the point of a ranked queue? You could still have tiers for casual queue, they'd just be based on total wins or total games played or something. You could still give people that little serotonin drip from hehe monke brain like big number.

[Guntank81]

It will never thrive, though. PvP is side content.

It is important to consider that Square-Enix has demonstrated a commitment to improving and updating the CC mode in the past patches, including the release of a new map in patch 6.3. While the CC-ranked mode may lack certain features that are considered standard in other competitive games, it still provides a unique and enjoyable experience for many players. Additionally, the CC-ranked mode is not necessarily doomed to the same fate as the Feast mode, and improvements and updates could be implemented to ensure its success. Finally, the decision to have a ranked mode separate from the casual mode offers players the opportunity to engage in a more competitive experience, and the existence of the ranked mode does not diminish the value of the casual mode.

It has been suggested in my original post, that implementing improved rewards through achievements could increase engagement in CC/Rival Wings. While it may be perceived that this has been done before, it has not been implemented in the past. Previously, rewards were only available to the top 100 players and many were excluded or did not show interest due to issues such as win trading in the Feast mode. Square-Enix has addressed these issues in CC by restricting access to pre-made teams. However, it is understandable that players often want to play with friends, which is why I suggested introducing a Pre-made vs Pre-made mode to ensure fairness for all players. Improved moderation and stricter enforcement against win trading will further encourage players to participate in PVP modes. By taking decisive action against those who seek to manipulate the game, fair play is ensured and the integrity of the PVP experience is maintained. This creates a more positive and enjoyable environment for all players, which in turn will drive increased engagement in the PVP modes.

[DrWho2010]

except manipulators were rarely punished. that was the other bad thing. there aren't enough higher ups to monitor all matches 24/7 to catch that activity.

[Gserpent]

snip

It doesn't need to be a premade mode. Such a mode will be dead on arrival. Groups of casual players aren't going to want to find 2 extra friends if only three people are on at once, or if they only have the one friend that wants to PvP. Just make the casual queue allow people to queue in pairs, and adjust it to try and prioritize ensuring that pairs are against other pairs. Done and solved. This is casual queue we're talking about, half the people don't even have any clue what they're doing and half of those probably just want their credit for Garo mounts or whatever and won't even *try* to figure out what to do. The negative impact of not being able to play with your friends *in an MMORPG* greatly outweighs the negative impact of "omg, premades."

I disagree there is any meaningful difference to ranked mode. Quality of players is no different from casual mode, and there are no meaningful rewards to be gained from participation in ranked mode - not even increased XP or currency. Literally the only reason to have a ranked mode *at all* is for skill-based matchmaking, but the system in place is *not* skill-based and is in fact quite far from it. Hence, they either need to actually do their damn jobs and replace it with a proper Elo-derived system like literally everyfuckingone else, or they need to admit they were full of it and just give it the Astralagos treatment so that it's no longer splitting the player pool. Maybe you're willing to give them credit for minor tweaks and adjustments to the system, but I'm not - they fucking damn well know what they need to do, they're just pussyfooting around and hoping that there being words in patch notes is enough to mollify the average player. And in fairness, it totally is - Christ knows there's a frankly cultish devotion to Yoshida in a depressingly large segment of the playerbase, as though he's some kind of gaming Jesus and not just a really cool guy who happens to operate and manage a pretty good video game.

Actually, I can come up with one discernable difference between casual and ranked - I don't usually get one out of every three or four games in casual mode featuring at least one player on my team pitching a temper tantrum and spamming quickchat or "marks target to ignore" crap like I do in ranked. Ranked brings in all the downsides of a competitive ladder with *NONE* of the benefits, and I'm not willing to give credit to the idea that maybe someday six years in the future while they're ginning up the last patch of the expansion after the next that they might actually finally get around to making the ranked rating system *not* completely fucking worthless.

I ain't buying the brown nosing stuff, man. Square-Enix does a lot of things right - like, a LOT of things, XIV is a pretty good game and it's frankly flabbergasting at how good they are at putting out content *on schedule* and largely free of serious bugs. But they do make some mistakes, and in particular they keep doubling down on some of those mistakes, and I think we have every damn right to call them out on their bullshit when they do. We know that they are damn well capable of doing better than that, so they ought to fucking do it, or just give the content in question the Astralagos treatment.

except manipulators were rarely punished. that was the other bad thing. there aren't enough higher ups to monitor all matches 24/7 to catch that activity.

It's more than that. Because cheating and, especially, "hacking" (tools that let you do things like noclip, infinite health, etc... things clearly outside of what can be done by normal players) involve third-party tools, I'm pretty sure that it's something must be handled by a "special task force," like how they deal with RMT. That means it's just one team of people (and probably a very small team, proportional to the fucking massive behemoth that is FFXIV) based in the Square-Enix offices in Japan. That means reports have to be collected, translated, whatever data or evidence is involved attached, and then the team has to get to it and review it. And assuming that it's handled like with RMT, they will do account actions/bans in *waves*, not piecemeal - they'll figure out how the tools work, what bits of the program they operate off of, and seek to close off those access points and ban the associated accounts in one swoop. And then the cycle repeats itself because RMT and cheating are never going to go away.

In the meantime, while all this is happening, your PvP season has been ruined. Right now, no one *really* cares, because there are zero rewards of value associated with ranked. No one is going to care that much if someone cheats to #1 or #10 or whatever. But if they put out a cool glamour set or a mount for the best boys and girls in each DC? Oh man, you better be ready for some high octane caterwauling.

It's an especially thorny issue for Square-Enix, because raiding is wholly fucking reliant on ACT, and ACT is reliant on being able to hook into the program. I'm not a programmer, but I wouldn't be surprised if the programs used to execute "hacking" also rely on hooks like that. Nothing will kill XIV faster than an anti-cheating patch killing third-party glamour/visual modding tools because it nixed the same access hooks those programs utilized. Like, I would seriously expect >25% subscriber numbers bleeding off over a few months if they did something that broke those programs' access to the game. Killing ACT wouldn't have as large of an impact because Endwalker has done a better job of killing the raiding scene than anything else they could have done, but it wouldn't be healthy for their subscriber count either.

[BraveKaiser]

Would it help to have matches be set up based on a player's win/loss record? Like say, you have a ton of wins through trial and error, and you get paired with players who have similar success as you, and you play matches with maybe longer match times or more distance to travel?

Or say you absolutely suck at the mode to the point you practically can count the times you won on barely two hands, you get paired with others who struggle, and you play matches with some form of handicap until you either find your groove or just don't bother until the next Series, where the win/loss resets?

Sure that doesn't sound fun, but at this rate, I'd rather have SOMETHING to that effect than let things continue as they have, because PvP is a struggle and there doesn't seem to be a good way to improve than just surrendering to the failure and just play through PvP without a care, using cheats or just washing your hands of the mode entirely.

Also let us buy the rewards we miss with Trophy Crystals please.

[Towa-Musa]

I am writing to express my strong belief in the importance of player versus player (PVP) content in Final Fantasy XIV (FFXIV). As a long-time fan of the game, I have seen firsthand the potential that PVP has to engage and excite players.

One key way to enhance the appeal of PVP in FFXIV would be to offer more meaningful rewards for participation. This could include glamour items, rare titles for different jobs, rare mounts, achievements, and unique weapons. These rewards would not only incentivize players to engage with PVP content but also add an extra layer of prestige and accomplishment to their character.

I would like to also bring to your attention the potential benefits of adding a Pre-Made Team vs Pre-Made Team casual and rank mode to your game. It is my belief that this addition could help to keep the PVP side of FFXIV alive and well by providing players with more options for gameplay.

By granting players the ability to form teams and participate in casual and ranked matches, you can encourage continued engagement in PVP and provide a new avenue for players to experience the competitive side of your game. This could also serve as an incentive for players to try out different roles and expand their skillset, further enhancing the overall PVP experience.

You are on the right path with hosting official Square Enix tournament cups which would provide a clear path for players to aspire to and showcase their skills. This would not only foster a sense of competition within the community but also create a platform for players to demonstrate their abilities on a larger stage.

Ultimately, I believe that a strong and vibrant PVP community is essential to the long-term success of FFXIV. By investing in PVP content and providing meaningful rewards for participation, the Development Team can further engage and excite players, leading to a healthier and more vibrant game.

In addition to this suggestion, I also recommend that the Development Team take steps to increase the popularity and usage of Rival Wings, a mode that has proven to be well-liked by players. One possible solution could be to include Rival Wings in the daily roulette or to offer daily rewards for participating in the mode. This would not only help to drive engagement with Rival Wings, but also provide players with additional incentives to try out this exciting and dynamic mode.

I hope that these recommendations are taken into consideration as your team continues to develop and improve the gameplay experience for your players.

Thank you for considering my thoughts on this matter.
Sincerely,
Roelk Roegan of Mateus, Crystal D/C

yeah, this all the way.