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  1. #1
    Player
    dspguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,667
    Character
    Jain Farstrider
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 100
    What we are discussing her is just a symptom but it isn't the cause. The symptoms we are seeing is this need for aligning all these high damaging attacks in a raid buff window. Back in SB, we started seeing that some jobs aligned better than others and those jobs became preferable in a raid group. Over the last few years, SE has simply made more jobs conform to this raid window. As others have said, it is stifling their options with making jobs feel different.

    But why do we care so much about aligning these raid buff windows? DPS and enrage timers. Bosses have to be cleared in X seconds or you wipe. Hence the need to squeeze in as much damage as you can within those X seconds. The mechanics of many of these fights are difficult. Raid fights are mostly a dance. Dance to the tune of the mechanics while maintaining up-time.

    I'd rather see SE take a different direction on the "fix." Change the enrage timer to more of a "failure count." For example, if your group, collectively, reaches X vuln stacks - you wipe. It is a failure to do mechanics. If a team can do the dance flawlessly for longer with less DPS, they should still be able to clear.

    This removes the need to align buffs. Sure, it would help to align buffs, but would a group rather take a player that is going to stand in the poop to get off an extra ability and possibly wipe the group or a player that is going to do the mechanics properly? Just a thought.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    7,748
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by dspguy View Post
    I'd rather see SE take a different direction on the "fix." Change the enrage timer to more of a "failure count." For example, if your group, collectively, reaches X vuln stacks - you wipe. It is a failure to do mechanics. If a team can do the dance flawlessly for longer with less DPS, they should still be able to clear.
    So sort of like Rathalos or like how Bozja CEs don't let you duel if you get a vuln. The good thing is these demonstrations of how it could work exist.
    (0)
    In other news, there is no technical debt from 1.0.
    "We don't have ... a technological issue that was carried over from 1.0, because ARR was meant to kind of discard what we had from 1.0 and rebuild it from the engine."
    https://youtu.be/ge32wNPaJKk?t=560

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    Want to know why new content will never last more than 20 minutes? Full breakdown:

  3. #3
    Player
    Mikey_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,553
    Character
    Mike Aettir
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by dspguy View Post
    I'd rather see SE take a different direction on the "fix." Change the enrage timer to more of a "failure count." For example, if your group, collectively, reaches X vuln stacks - you wipe. It is a failure to do mechanics. If a team can do the dance flawlessly for longer with less DPS, they should still be able to clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    So sort of like Rathalos or like how Bozja CEs don't let you duel if you get a vuln. The good thing is these demonstrations of how it could work exist.
    Just to pint out, Rathalos EX, when it was first released, the best party composition was 4 tanks. As long as you could get through the first half, then healers became unnecessary and with the ease that DPS could get killed, they were more of a burden than a help.

    This isn't to point out that such a system cannot be done, it is to point out that you have to be very very careful when designing systems that go against the norm. Take away the DPS check and why should I bring DPS? If I can do the dance long enough that I don't get any vuln stacks, and the same applies to the rest of the team, why should I not take a team of mainly tanks who can defensively support each other and the party. I'm not saying not to take a healer, you can make the heal check so that they are required, but without a DPS check, you start to question whether you need DPS in the first place.

    Going with a different route, why should a healer and tank be burdened with doing their role when the DPS can just sit back and take it easy? The boss has no enrage after all and with more recent changes, tanks and healers just do not run out of resources (at least I believe healer's do not), so there is no immediate threat to wiping due to resource exhaustion.

    DPS checks are there for a reason and I cannot personally think of a way that a fight can be designed that eliminates or reduces DPS checks whilst still keeping groups from taking extra tanks for extra defensive capabilities.
    (1)