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  1. #61
    Player
    HyperiusUltima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,391
    Character
    Eileen White
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by R041 View Post
    I think job engagement is a totally different issue I didn't even discuss. That's a problem within itself, just as the 500ms / low tick rate is. Because once job diversity and reactive abilities are out the window, we realize that there's very little fun to be had with each class. It's like playing the same DDR song a hundred times a day. That doesn't sound fun at all.
    I think I misread on that part. Sorry for that. Sometimes my mind fogs up a little when I'm at the computer for too long.

    Regardless, I think the level of diversity you're looking for is a one size fits all solution, is it? Because what they're trying to do is preserve their trinity of Tank/Healer/DPS while trying to inject some type of change, albeit small in scope. Their mechanical changes to the game have been massive every expansion up to this point. Heavensward was the only expansion to expand upon jobs extensively, whereas with Stormblood we got Gauges(which, mind you, some are nigh useless in their current iterations), Shadowbringers we had the overhaul to jobs to remove over-complexity(when they had people playing jobs in ways the Devs didn't intend like MNK's original Riddle of Wind), and now in Endwalker we have the 2-minute meta enforced harshly.

    It now becomes a question of if they're going to bother fixing their problems next expansion, as certain jobs are losing popularity - PLD currently because of fear-mongering, and healers because of their current state. All we can do is tell them what's wrong and hope they will listen, since I'm not sure how the NA team filters our posts.
    (1)

  2. #62
    Player R041's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    938
    Character
    Oidi Grey
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima View Post
    ...
    Healers are just in a horrible spot altogether. SGE is like the FFXIII of Healers. "I heard you all like X, so here's only X, also a bunch of names you can't memorize or pronounce"

    I personally think Heavensward was an OK spot in engagement / diversity - Not all classes of course, but some had the basic idea down and could have expanded from there. I really like to use AST here as an example, so sorry if I'm overusing it. But it did have a lot going for it in terms of reaction, prep, and diversity. Like if we could harness the power of HW AST diversity and reactability for all classes, but without the RNG.. That would be ideal for me I think.

    It's like our Class Diversity/Engagement and the overall QoL shifted entirely over the years, and it's not like our QoL increased because they kept removing stuff from the classes - But because we kept getting cleaner fight mechanics, and stuff like Gauges. Imagine if we had HW classes in Endwalker content and QoL.

    I didn't really mind TP, outside of the fact that some classes had it pretty rough and Sprint was essential. So I just look at all of the stuff we kept losing over the years, thinking maybe they could have adjusted it a bit instead of getting rid of it entirely? Just like how I think the whole Job system was a massively missed opportunity that they just didn't do correctly in the first round. So I'm saddened that they threw it away entirely. They pretty often throw away ideas right after first iteration in favor of something else, or just remove from them over time. When do we get to add stuff? SGE is just AST cut content.

    (Tangent) Like why doesn't Eureka have world Party Sync already, we just remove shit, or let it rot. Remove, remove, remove. Cut, cut, cut. Rot, rot, rot.
    (0)
    Last edited by R041; 12-30-2022 at 04:20 AM.

  3. #63
    Player
    Azlith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Posts
    67
    Character
    Nightshala Frostmane
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by R041 View Post
    Anyway, I don't agree with removing buff individuality because it's exactly the type of removal that got us into this position in the first place. Removing individual buffs would put us further into 'samey', that we may as well get rid of DPS altogether and we can just play DDR. I think you're right about combos though.
    When I say to get rid of raid buffs I don't mean to simply get rid of them and keep the jobs the same as they are now. I should have been more clear on this. What I mean is that currently every job in the game must be designed to generate a specific amount of resource over the course of a specific amount of time due to raid buffs. This means that ALL jobs need to have a specific amount of damage fall into a 20 second window every x number of seconds (2 minutes in our current case). The removal of raid buffs would allow the devs to create MORE individuality not less. They would no longer be forced to design all the jobs to conform to specific timing windows. They could design jobs to have a larger degree of variety between them by having some jobs do small bursts of damage more frequently or make some jobs have to do a grand setup for their big burst. They could even design jobs to have no burst windows at all and be all about that sustained dmg. (and before anyone says we have this in BLM that is one job and its not entirely true either. BLM, like every job, wants to try and line up as many of its hardest hitting abilities inside of the buff window.)
    (1)

  4. #64
    Player R041's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    938
    Character
    Oidi Grey
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Azlith View Post
    ...
    Thanks for clarifying, because people will get defensive - Just like me. And rightly so I think. lol

    Everything has felt like we're just getting rid of stuff, or repackaging old stuff. It's like your parents asking to borrow your favorite toy, you never see it again.. But come Xmas you open your gift and it's that same toy but a different color. For 4 Xmases in a row.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-cavEKkirc
    (0)

  5. #65
    Player
    IkaraGreydancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    1,245
    Character
    Ikara Graydancer
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 80
    Idk from what I've seen over the years classes having variation to them was deemed as to busy, hard or pointless. I remember many talking about hating how aggro management use to be. I remember raiders complaining and buff alinement and classes like Ast having pointless kits that weren't "balance balance balance". Certain classes just weren't touched much back then and things were far less balanced. I think the community has some blame there for the track that were on currently.
    (0)

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