Raid buffs and combo actions should go.

[Azlith]

I want to start by saying that when I refer to raid buffs in this post I am refering to buffs which provide the entire party a small window of increased damage. I'm not talking about mitigation or damage buffs which can be maintained to have 100% uptime throughout the fight.

Raid buffs, provided through active abilities like cooldowns or astrologian cards, should be removed in their entirety. while raid buffs exist parties are heavily incentivized to bring jobs whos cooldowns align perfectly with said buffs. This leads to a situation where certain jobs will be excluded from parties when their cooldowns don't align well with the rest of the party. This in turn leads to the situation we have now where all jobs need to be designed around a specific raid cooldown timing hence the two minute meta we have now. The two minute meta forces the developers to design every job to conform to it which heavily limits creativity in job design. Every job must be designed in such a way so as to have a big burst window ready to go every two minutes. This means that every jobs rotation must be constructed such that it generates a specific amount of resource over the course of a specific amount of time. (exactly enough resource to do a big burst every two minutes in our current case)

If Raid buffs were to be removed from the game then the developers would have far more freedom to design the jobs to have a greater range of playstyles. They could have some rotations utilize variable resource generation or even variable cooldown timers. They could have some jobs lean more into proc based gameplay where you get access to using abilities in your rotation that you could previously only normally use under niche circumstances because now your rotation doesn't need to line up perfectly every two mins.

I'll use reaper as an example of a job that would greatly benefit from the removal of raid buffs and a few small tweaks to the job. Reapers would no longer need to hold onto their enshroud uses to get two of them inside of raid buffs, now you can use them at your leisure or when the situation calls for it. They could also speed up the rate at which soulgauge is generated by doing something like making it so harvest moon generates a large amount of gauge and your weaponskills have a chance to change soulsow into harvest moon. This would in turn lead to reapers not only being able to use enshroud whenever they want but they would also gain access to using enshroud and many of the other fun buttons more often.

As a side note the reason I would prefer rotations to use more procs or some form of variance in their rotations is because I am firmly in the camp of static rotations being far less fun and engaging than semi-random rotations. Being able to map out your every gcd on any given boss is just so much less engaging than having to make good rotational decisions in the moment. (post1/2)

[Azlith]

Now on to combo actions.

While I think that raid buffs existing hurts creative job design quite a bit I believe that combo actions are the biggest offender in this regard. Specifically I'm talking about when combo actions are made to be the core of a jobs rotation. I can provide no greater example of combo actions making jobs feel very samey than asking you to compare how different the core rotation feels when going from one melee job to another versus going from one caster to another. The core rotations of the caster jobs in this game all feel very different whereas the core rotations of the melee jobs (including tanks) all feel extremely similar. I think it is ok to have combo actions in the form of things like the rdm melee combo, gunbreakers gnashing fang combo or the monks stance system (as that is kind of the whole identity of monk) but when you have all of the melee jobs using combo actions as the core of their rotations then all the jobs start to feel too similar. Simply removing combos as the core part of melee rotations could open up many new avenues of job design and allow the devs to really make the jobs feel more unique and true to the theme of the job.

Anyway this was something I've been thinking about a lot lately and I really wanted to get my thoughts out there. I know nothing will ever come of this type of discussion but I thought it would be fun to see what other people think about this topic.

So what do you guys think? Do you think the games combat systems are in a healthy place or should they change? What are your thoughts on how raid buffs/combo actions contribute to constrained job design? (post2/2)

[Jeeqbit]

Some jobs such as BRD or DNC use procs as part of their identity and some jobs don't. I don't think all jobs should use procs and RNG because then you have a choice over what you want. Proc gameplay is fun sometimes but a lot of people like a strict but lengthy rotation like PLD has right now (for the short time that remains) but with lots of different things making it up.

Your logic with raid buffs could even apply to self damage buffs, because it forces a job like GNB to fit in all its firepower into No Mercy instead of spreading it out and even if you find this fun (which I do), ping and skill speed and skill issues come into how much you fit into it.

But if I were to ask myself "should they get rid of all damage buffs", it just makes me ask what will replace it? With jobs having had so much stripped away already and game mechanics such as piercing and slashing vulnerability having been removed, a lack of damage buffs would start to make the gameplay very simple and lackluster.

[Azlith]

Some jobs such as BRD or DNC use procs as part of their identity and some jobs don't. I don't think all jobs should use procs and RNG because then you have a choice over what you want. Proc gameplay is fun sometimes but a lot of people like a strict but lengthy rotation like PLD has right now (for the short time that remains) but with lots of different things making it up.

Your logic with raid buffs could even apply to self damage buffs, because it forces a job like GNB to fit in all its firepower into No Mercy instead of spreading it out and even if you find this fun (which I do), ping and skill speed and skill issues come into how much you fit into it.

But if I were to ask myself "should they get rid of all damage buffs", it just makes me ask what will replace it? With jobs having had so much stripped away already and game mechanics such as piercing and slashing vulnerability having been removed, a lack of damage buffs would start to make the gameplay very simple and lackluster.

My arguement for raid buffs removal would extend to self % damage increase buffs as well yes. I think that abilities like no mercy riddle of fire raging strikes and potentially even trick attack are boring and should be reworked to provide something that enhances the gameplay in an active way. No mercy is actually a great example in my opinion because removing it entirely would change little to nothing about how you play the job. What would be a more "fun" version of no mercy 1. leave it as it is now as a %dmg buff or 2. change it to interact with the gunbreakers basic kit in a more interesting way like making your next few cartridge spenders cost no cartridge or maybe every weaponskill for a time/x number of gcds generates a cartridge or something else entirely? The cooldown could also be changed to be shorter or longer as well.

Lets take a look at monks riddle of fire as well. A simple change to make it more of an interesting button press could be to simply make it an enhanced version of perfect balance causing your next 9 "form" skill to generate both a beast chakra and a normal chakra.

Regardless of any individual jobs specific situation The idea is not to look at how the jobs would be as they are now minus raid buffs but rather to show how much more varied the design space can become when the developers are no longer limited in scope when it comes to job design. In the current stat of the game every job must be designed in such a way so as to have its most potent skills land inside of a specific timing window. Every melee job must have combo actions as the core of its rotation. These two things greatly limit the amount potential playstyles because every job in the game must conform to these rules.

[ForteNightshade]

The two minute meta is a self inflicted wound.

We didn't have anywhere near these problems in Shadowbringers when raid buffs were on different timers. While yes, they followed a 60s interval, damage was spaced out enough to make it less volatile. The issue nowadays is our only major damaging window happens every two minutes whereas in the past it was simply the highest but not the only window. Three minute windows could actually overtake two minutes depending on your specific comp. Two another factors which both existed in Shadowbringers but has become far more egregious in Endwalker is crit variance and high potency abilities. While they're technically each a separate problem, they do compound on one another. With only a single damage window, several jobs have become entirely dependent on RNG.

No better is this exemplified then on Dark Knight and Gunbreaker. The latter has Double Down and Blasting Zone. If neither crit, you've essentially lost half your burst through no fault of your own. It's utterly insane just how much DPS comes from those two abilities. Meanwhile, Dark Knight spaces out its damage contribution with a ridiculous amount of oGCDs but suffers the same problem: RNG. If you aren't crit-ing, you're screwed.

Why wasn't this an issue in Shadowbringers, especially when Blasting Zone and most of Dark Knight's kit still existed? Those extra damaging windows, while weaker, helped mitigation potential crit pitfalls. Say you didn't crit a single Bloodspiller or Carve and Spit at two minutes. You still had a three minute window which could potentially have Trick Attach, Battle Litany and Battle Voice rolling. In other words, you could make up your loses. Now you can't. Blasting Zone was actually a problem though. Now it's simply worse.

Big potency abilities are an awful inclusion with how volatile crit is. Reigning in the stat would do wonders for job balance. It's simply gotten far too out of control. For reference sake, my week 1 group missed killing P8Sp1 on two pulls because our Ninja didn't DHC a single Hyosho Ranryu. Now yes, the fight was overtuned but that's still ridiculous. The difference between a DHC and non-DHC was somewhere in the neighborhood of 70k.

With all of that said, removing buffs entirely creates a new problem. Now every job becomes Samurai. Instead of being excluded because of raid buffs, jobs will be excluded for not dealing enough damage. And no, utility will not make up the difference because the game doesn't value it. At least not enough to supersede damage. Once again, we need only look to the tanks for our example. Warrior has fantastic defensive utility yet nobody cares due to said utility not being enough to overcome what Dark Knight offers alongside its monstrously high DPS. This is even more noticeable with Paladin, and partly why they're adding Bulwark back. Unfortunately, FFXIV is a game where damage is king. If you lag too far behind, no amount of utility will matter because nothing makes it matter.

You're essentially trading one form of exclusion for another unless every job's DPS contribution is made to be within 1-2% of each other. Which then creates a another issue. How do you balance jobs like Summoner who are drastically easier to play? You're left with the same problem we have now... except Summoner can't fall back on having a raid buff since in this hypothetical it no longer exists.

[Ishe-P]

m. I agree with the assessment that this is a self-inflicted wound. The meta is something that will always exist, and SE has a tendency to respond to the meta in a way to bridge inclusivity gaps. The 2 minute window is definitely a result of this and really an ongoing design choice of timing and event metrics. The game is less of a game in some scenarios and more of an assembly line where if everyone knows exactly what to do, the only chaos that is left to overcome is the RNG of hit% and crit%. This tier is a brilliant example of this because you can run the timeline of the whole fight and have some pretty reasonable expectations about how to approach and then complete each encounter. Look at any guide video prepared for Savage, the formula is always the same: 'teaching you the mechanics, running those mechanics in a certain order, and then combining those mechanics as a sort of quiz as the battle progresses into its own Act 3.

They try to hide it by having random 'modifiers' (cleaves in P6S for example) that mix things up ever so slightly, but as you continue to get used to raiding, the only real challenge to overcome is getting the team to coordinate within the timeline. It's almost like they are relying on people to not scooch their openers 15 seconds downstream as a lot of mechanics in Savage seem to come alongside the 2 minute interval. It feels to me that this design is set for exactly the kind of player that values completing a puzzle game and not one that would prefer a more organic experience that could be easy to cheese. And even then, the meta just shifts to the new types of cheese that propagates through the community, so design has to be strict to still allow the challenge while also obscuring the base formula of 'go here, stand here, then go here' as much as they can without making it feel cheap, and satisfy the first-rans.

I personally don't think it is a formula that will last, but as long as new players keep experiencing the content and don't realize just how heavily they have to reuse some tropes in this game, it will persist. I tend to still be surprised what they're capable of doing with fights today, but it's hard to tell if they are all that willing to innovate anymore, I think players have been quietly grumbling about this for a long time. This game is locked into its formula, there is only so much it can do, and the only way to make sure no one gets left behind they almost 'have' to simplify class mechanics across the board, and it's not just the devs fault in this. Players will always find a way to simplify any solution, and so it's kind of a developer's duty to see how long they can hold them off.

I'm sorry if this wandered a little bit; it is a very dense thing to think about, more fun to think about than the game itself IMO. But I do think this game is feeling its age at this point, and players may be ready to move on, which is a weird thing to say.

[Jeeqbit]

Well yes, it's a self-inflicted wound, but the issue before was designing the fight for people who did coordinate raid buffs and those who didn't at the same time. The people who coordinated them could say that it was too easy because it had to be scaled for those who didn't.

I don't think they used to consider inclusivity very much. If you go back to ARR, you had to clear high-end raids just to see the coil story and jobs were allowed to be extremely busy and clunky in Heavensward to the point many were avoided or the people who couldn't play them properly would have a massive gap in contribution from those who could. Just take for example not being able to "keep up" the basic part of your rotation that unlocks most of your firepower. These things are now traits.

It was pretty obvious that it was a problem and probably inevitable that they started caring about it.

[Renalt]

This is all over my head. I hit things. They die. Sometimes fast. Sometimes not fast.

[Themarvin]

The solution is simple... play a different game that cater to your personal needs instead of trying to change a game that does not.

[Azlith]

The solution is simple... play a different game that cater to your personal needs instead of trying to change a game that does not.

This game has gone through many iterations throughout the years. Should people who didn't like the accuracy or piercing resistance down mechanics have not voiced their opinions and just gone and "played a different game"? What about old astro cards or brd and mch being casters? Telling people to not voice their opinions on a game, a game with a public forum that is designed just for that btw, is so asinine.