Why do the devs hate MCH so much?

[Renalt]

So I ran the latest dungeon a few times. I can now agree that Flamethrower will lower your DPS even if you do the full duration. Better to just do other AoE attacks. Do yourself a favor and delete it off your hotbar.

Also I noticed I do super low DPS in comparison to just about any other class. Like I'll be in 2nd place in terms of DPS...but the one in 1st will be leagues ahead of me. My Ilvl is good and I would say I'm fairly competent in the role. But yeah even with me trying my hardest I couldn't get near 1st place in terms of DPS.

[Arrius]

I don't think they are bad - They run solid DPS now, it all comes down to know how to play the job. And you won't be always top with certain melee DPS outshining you.

Though granted they run a much tighter rotation and press far more buttons than most others, especially Dragoons.

[Ranaku]

I don't think they are bad - They run solid DPS now, it all comes down to know how to play the job. And you won't be always top with certain melee DPS outshining you.

Though granted they run a much tighter rotation and press far more buttons than most others, especially Dragoons.

If you look at the current data MCH is at the bottom, in potential highest dps (thanks to utility) even below bard and dancer.

MCH as a selfish dps, that provides no utility, should be up there with samurai and blackmage but MCH was always at the bottom for whatever reason, the devs always gave in after people screamed and begged for more damage adjustments but it is never enough to make MCH any good.

The sad truth is that you at your very best as a MCH are as good as an average samurai or blackmage or in fact every other melee. So it is no wonder why nobody picks this job and people get even kicked out of groups for playing MCH. Cause even if you play like a god you can't beat a average player of the melee jobs and for them people rather take a dancer with them to increase their damage.

[Arrius]

The sad truth is that you at your very best as a MCH are as good as an average samurai or blackmage or in fact every other melee. So it is no wonder why nobody picks this job and people get even kicked out of groups for playing MCH. Cause even if you play like a god you can't beat a average player of the melee jobs and for them people rather take a dancer with them to increase their damage.

I beg to differ - I crank out good numbers and remain on the Top 2 DPS in my party when it comes to Aglaia/Abyssos runs. The 'average player' is not as good as you think.

Every job can finish all content. The 'average' folks are just seeing numbers on logs and start metaslaving when it comes to savage/ultimate, thinking themselves better because they play the 'better' job (Dunning–Kruger says hello) - As it always happens in MMO's.

Could the Machnist do better? Sure, there is some room to improve.

But to go all doom and gloom and just go all crazy like SAM's Kaiten change is just silly.

[Ranaku]

I beg to differ - I crank out good numbers and remain on the Top 2 DPS in my party when it comes to Aglaia/Abyssos runs. The 'average player' is not as good as you think.

Every job can finish all content. The 'average' folks are just seeing numbers on logs and start metaslaving when it comes to savage/ultimate, thinking themselves better because they play the 'better' job (Dunning–Kruger says hello) - As it always happens in MMO's.

Could the Machnist do better? Sure, there is some room to improve.

But to go all doom and gloom and just go all crazy like SAM's Kaiten change is just silly.

We are going into statistics here measured by thousands of people not well mine or your personal experiences. So no anecdotal evidence please, i also am very often at the top as MCH but that is cause the others don't try especially in Aglaia which is highly casual content anyways.

And i agree that every job can finish all content, i myself don't raid current savage tiers or ultimates. I just see what the neglect is doing to the job itself, cause MCH is the least played job for a reason. And this neglect now brings out the toxic side in the raiding community more and more cause MCH players get bullied or booted out of groups for playing MCH.

I think one thing is clear and where the numbers also clearly don't lie, MCH has not really a rewarding feeling to it. If i remember correctly dancer is picked three times as often roughly. You have to deal with double weaving as a MCH which makes the job almost unplayable with bad ping and well the rotation is far more complicated than many other jobs and for that you get no reward at all.

So yeah i don't want to invalidate your personal experiences, i am sure you and in fact me too have fun with MCH no matter how the current dps meta looks like BUT that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem. Cause if we look at the statistics then the current path SE is taking with MCH makes the job basically die out. Be that cause of the lacking damage or the really clunky rotation or that people can't play it with bad ping.

[ForteNightshade]

I beg to differ - I crank out good numbers and remain on the Top 2 DPS in my party when it comes to Aglaia/Abyssos runs. The 'average player' is not as good as you think.

Every job can finish all content. The 'average' folks are just seeing numbers on logs and start metaslaving when it comes to savage/ultimate, thinking themselves better because they play the 'better' job (Dunning–Kruger says hello) - As it always happens in MMO's.

Could the Machnist do better? Sure, there is some room to improve.

But to go all doom and gloom and just go all crazy like SAM's Kaiten change is just silly.

This is because you're looking at their personal damage, which doesn't account for the jobs buffing you. We have the statistics on FFlogs and Machinist is noticeably weaker than Bard and Dancer. In fact, it isn't until the 75% percentile where Machinist pulls ahead of Bard.

Being able to "finish" content doesn't equate to balance but viability. It isn't "metaslaving" to prefer having jobs which are objectively better at everything. Let's put aside damage for a moment. Dancer offers Curing Waltz and Improv while Bard has Nature's Minne. Meanwhile, Machinist gives nothing. So you have a job which does the lowest damage and has zero utility. There's no reason to bring it outside of someone liking the job. Which is perfectly fine for casual content but at the Savage level, there starts to be a point where people demand more as you climb the latter.

It's the same issue with the other roles. Dark Knight is simply far too strong at the moment which is why it's becoming more common to bring two of them at the high end. Warrior and Paladin aren't bad jobs. They just don't offer enough to compete with Dark Knight's ridiculous damage.

[Deceptus]

MCH as a selfish dps, that provides no utility, should be up there with samurai and blackmage but MCH was always at the bottom for whatever reason, the devs always gave in after people screamed and begged for more damage adjustments but it is never enough to make MCH any good.

The sad truth is that you at your very best as a MCH are as good as an average samurai or blackmage or in fact every other melee. So it is no wonder why nobody picks this job and people get even kicked out of groups for playing MCH. Cause even if you play like a god you can't beat a average player of the melee jobs and for them people rather take a dancer with them to increase their damage.

I 100% share this opinion. They're a "selfish" DPS and should be in the same DPS group as the other "Selfish" DPS.

Just a minor thing, but maybe should take Physick out of the equation because is useless in almost any type of situation. Even still, Rez + personal shield + party wide hot + strong single target proc heal is a lot of utility.

They absolutely should, it should trait into something else (radiant aegis possibly?)

Tying a utility into the battery gauge makes it heavily unreliable. The MCH would have to choose between actually using the Queen to do damage, or holding out on it just in case. You either lose damage or lose the utility, and we all know damage is king in this game.

Putting a long enough CD on Queen would fix that, or making another battery spender worth using at 50% gauge (an aoe for trash pulls or something) would also work.