Please stop removing Damage Over Time effects from every job, add more complexity

[Shurrikhan]

The whole notion that DoTs should be removed from the game because raid bosses "jump" is just silly. Raid bosses jump on a script. Anyone that raids knows exactly when that is going to happen. If the boss will jump before the DoT will be more effective than some other GCD - simply don't reapply the DoT. That's like saying we should remove Battle Litany because a DRG might use it on CD before the boss jumps. Or... just hold it until it makes sense to use it. Just like DoTs.

To be fair, the job's damage would still suffer accordingly, simply because its filler attacks are that much weaker because its DoTs are that much stronger -- in the same sense that combo openers are weak so that combo finishers can be strong.

In single-target combat, assuming initial balance, if your mod(n) [where n is the number of seconds/GCDs for your DoT/combo cycle] fits the fight timings better than other jobs fit theirs, your job lucks out / "wins". Same as it does for the larger CDs.

I think everybody would agree that they just need to add an "early detonate" button like with MCH and Automaton Queen, where you can end Queen early if you need to, with the remaining damage loaded into a final attack so you don't lose any potency. Something like that would help deal with bursting down boss adds to prevent a wipe too, since the DoTs are no longer a liability due to time constraints, you can just detonate them for the burst.

That'd simply either

• be a dps-loss, as it is on Wildfire/Queen,
  
  or
  
  
• turn DoTs each into two-step combos.

[dspguy]

To be fair, the job's damage would still suffer accordingly, simply because its filler attacks are that much weaker because its DoTs are that much stronger -- in the same sense that combo openers are weak so that combo finishers can be strong.

In single-target combat, assuming initial balance, if your mod(n) [where n is the number of seconds/GCDs for your DoT/combo cycle] fits the fight timings better than other jobs fit theirs, your job lucks out / "wins". Same as it does for the larger CDs.

Consider that SE reads comments like yours and this is why we have 2 minute burst windows and moving towards homogeneity across all roles. Imagine that one job has a slight advantage over another job in an RPG! Wild concept, that is. Maybe the MCH's 3rd Drill comes up just before the BRD's best usage of Iron Jaws, but the boss jumps and eats about 30s of that DoT. Maybe for that one battle, don't go as BRD if the DPS loss is enough to make the difference between clearing it or not.

Nearly every other RPG we play, there are advantages and disadvantages to certain spells, weapons, characters, etc. The notion that this MMORPG should be any different is silly.

[Shurrikhan]

Consider that SE reads comments like yours and this is why we have 2 minute burst windows and moving towards homogeneity across all roles. Imagine that one job has a slight advantage over another job in an RPG! Wild concept, that is. Maybe the MCH's 3rd Drill comes up just before the BRD's best usage of Iron Jaws, but the boss jumps and eats about 30s of that DoT. Maybe for that one battle, don't go as BRD if the DPS loss is enough to make the difference between clearing it or not.

Nearly every other RPG we play, there are advantages and disadvantages to certain spells, weapons, characters, etc. The notion that this MMORPG should be any different is silly.

???

None of what you quoted was a perceived negative about job diversity. I advocate ad (others') nauseum for job diversity.

I'm just pointing out the reality of it. Which jobs are advantaged in a particular single-target fight comes down to how well their damage cycles fit the content; DoTs play no significant part in that unless the devs choose specifically to screw them over by nullifying those DoTs on certain events. We should stop pretending, given that DoTs for expansions continued ticking just fine even while the boss had "jumped" away (or was otherwise untargetable or immune to further direct damage), that boss jumps would be the reason behind the removal of DoTs.

Similarly, your strategy of "just use your filler instead of your soft CD (that you're balanced around using on CD / keeping up at all times)" is no solution; it still retains an entirely needless imbalance over an arbitrary mechanic setting. The devs just need to not purposely screw over DoTs (e.g., by just not actively having jumps immunize or purge already applied afflictions). That's it.

We had plenty of fights with jumps where this was never a problem, because the devs hadn't made it one. We don't need bloated solutions like early detonation; we just need the devs not to flip the "break DoTs, I guess?" switch.

[Melethron123]

Consider that SE reads comments like yours and this is why we have 2 minute burst windows and moving towards homogeneity across all roles. Imagine that one job has a slight advantage over another job in an RPG! Wild concept, that is. Maybe the MCH's 3rd Drill comes up just before the BRD's best usage of Iron Jaws, but the boss jumps and eats about 30s of that DoT. Maybe for that one battle, don't go as BRD if the DPS loss is enough to make the difference between clearing it or not.

Nearly every other RPG we play, there are advantages and disadvantages to certain spells, weapons, characters, etc. The notion that this MMORPG should be any different is silly.

already quit WoW and GW2 because of crap design like this, luckily the devs learned from ARR/HW that it only creates animosity and resentment in the community (which is what happens in the previously mentioned games)

[RyuDragnier]

That'd simply either

• be a dps-loss, as it is on Wildfire/Queen,
  
  or
  
  
• turn DoTs each into two-step combos.

Hey, I'm trying to come up with something that gives a reason for DoTs to still exist, because at this rate I won't be surprised if SE removes them from all jobs (other than BLU) permanently. Btw, said detonate button would likely be an oGCD with a hefty timer to avoid spam of it.

[Shurrikhan]

Hey, I'm trying to come up with something that gives a reason for DoTs to still exist, because at this rate I won't be surprised if SE removes them from all jobs (other than BLU) permanently. Btw, said detonate button would likely be an oGCD with a hefty timer to avoid spam of it.

Ahh, gotcha. Yeah, that could be pretty cool then, akin to a damage-inclusive mobility skill, with some decision-making between leveraging situational and basic value. So long as it isn't able to be spammed (as per its being on a decent CD), it'd typically be saved for getting more DoT ticks in per raid buff cycle, but, you could also use it to avoid nullification on jumps. Nice.

I just, again, feel like the latter (saving one's DoTs against arbitrary encounter constraints above and beyond others jobs') shouldn't have been made an issue from the start. There's no need for boss jumps / transitions to nullify existing DoTs; they didn't before, and shouldn't now.

[Melethron123]

Hey, I'm trying to come up with something that gives a reason for DoTs to still exist, because at this rate I won't be surprised if SE removes them from all jobs (other than BLU) permanently. Btw, said detonate button would likely be an oGCD with a hefty timer to avoid spam of it.

only jobs that lost their dots so far have been summoner and paladin. BLM, SAM, BRD and the 4 healers are all still there and the devs have said nothing about removing those

[Absurdity]

only jobs that lost their dots so far have been summoner and paladin. BLM, SAM, BRD and the 4 healers are all still there and the devs have said nothing about removing those

Even if bard technically still has it's DoTs they could just as easily be removed and nothing would change.

They already got reduced from being an integral part of how you dealt damage to just another source of proccing "Straight Shot Ready", something that is already covered by Heavy/Burst Shot. You could simply increase the proc chance on Burst Shot and remove the DoTs entirely, which isn't really that unlikely for 7.0

[Melethron123]

Even if bard technically still has it's DoTs they could just as easily be removed and nothing would change.

They already got reduced from being an integral part of how you dealt damage to just another source of proccing "Straight Shot Ready", something that is already covered by Heavy/Burst Shot. You could simply increase the proc chance on Burst Shot and remove the DoTs entirely, which isn't really that unlikely for 7.0

any job could have its dots removed and potencies of other skills increased to compensate

[Absurdity]

any job could have its dots removed and potencies of other skills increased to compensate

For a lot of jobs you could indeed just remove them and compensate said jobs for it in other ways.

For GnB it is simply another damage source and, more importantly, a skill to create additional weave windows, this function could absolutely be fulfilled by a weaponskill that isn't a DoT. On BLM it's basically just an additional movement tool, sure it deals high damage as well but that role can be fulfilled by basically anything, so the only remaining important part is the proc that allows you to reposition without losing damage. On bard it has no interaction anymore with your primary mechanic, the songs, and just serves as another source for Refulgent Arrows.

SAM was a slightly different case, at least in ShB when I last played it. Higanbana was a sort of "anchor" for your rotation that you could orientate yourself around to determine your next action, especially when any downtime was involved. But no idea if that is even still the case in Endwalker.