PLD 6.3 opinions

[DoubleOneOne]

As someone who only played PLD I hate this rework. Here is my good, bad, and ugly of the rework before I go into rant mode.

GOOD
HS outside of req are instant with buff
FoF is no longer locked to physical
Changes to how Confiteor ready works
PoA was not changed
3 part AoE combo
Goring Blade and HS not breaking combo

BAD
OGCD use during Confiteor makes it feel weaker
too many buttons on hotbar
the new rotation
skill speed and spell speed still being separate stats
Divine veil changes are a NERF with the new rotation...
Goring Blade and HS not being part of a combo
Divine might capping at 1 stack

UGLY
Why do we have 2 damage buff buttons? and why make one have damage?
Holy sheltron, WTF does Knight's resolve do now?
Why is our job gauge STILL pointless? and why auto attacks...
Why did we get to keep Circle of Scorn? Doesn't SE hate DoTs
Bulwark is a **** joke. Block is the problem.
Why is Goring Blade a GCD? are they going to give us "bioblaster" at lvl 100?
Req still needing to be done in melee range
Atonement stacks still need to be dropped in the rotation

Rant time
Lets talk defensives first. Old PLD had one less personal, but could still clear all content as OT and MT. So saying it NEEDED Bulwark in an emergency rework is dumb. If it came out as a expansion leveling action I wouldn't care are all.
I will say the idea of having more mit is great, but Bulwark isn't it champ. Block is the problem! SE clearly knows that by taking it off sheltron. The only use I see for Bulwark is I guess autos?
Regarding Divine Veil... With the changes to HS and Confiteor procing it why remove the 'jank' of needed the heal to pop it. Having the ability to use DV early so that it would be off cool down for raid wides closer than 90s was nice. I also could've sworn the old version did a small heal AND shield.
PoA haters. STOP. It is an extra party wide mit. You can weave it and for a GCD you get the mit WITH NO LOSS OF DAMAGE! If you are complaining about it only working behind you, how do you want it to work? be another bubble?
Now Holy sheltron. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the blocking was taking off this action for bleeds? Did I not read the "Knight's Resolve" effect right? Did it not already do exactly what people were saying it didn't? Also why is this effect still in the game? is it 30% for the first 4 seconds?
Cover is trash still. Why ever use it over intervention? Speaking of which to Sheltron or intervention, that is the question. "Sorry co-tank I can't put my targetable on you, I used it on my personal earlier." Why make these a shared 'cooldown' and why make the gauge be based on auto attacks. It makes as much sense as having it be based of damage received.

[DoubleOneOne]

Now for the main event, the new rotation... Oh boy, why is the natural rotation not 60s SE? Do you know how to count? Cause if you don't just make have haste replace skill and spell speed and players can do it for you. But lets be real, I really want to understand what the goal of this rework was. I pray it wasn't just "this job doesn't burst so we need to change it." Remove the DoTs okay, but why change the core rotation? Could they not just, not let me blow your mind, just changed Goring Blade to what it is now and fix atonement to allow for a natural 60s rotation?
I liked OLD PLD because the rotation had no moving parts, just keep your dots up. You naturally come to a good enough order of buttons, and therefore quickly can understand the 'best' rotation. Being able to req in a large range of GCDs with no upside or downside made using defenses easy.
The only complaints I had about old PLD? late weaving FoF, req being melee skill, non 60s rotation. And would you look at that these are all still problems. Except FoF, which is just a skill you learn over time anyway.
Now with new PLD I have to keep track of if I used my HS stack before I get another, or if I need to save it for a burst. If the buff was part of the job gauge it might help my tiny brain, but oh wait I forgot PLDs don't use their job gauge. We even got a new 'action' so we don't have to look at it anymore.
But enough about full uptime thou, downtime and how to deal with it. Unplanned OLD PLD down time, drop or add an atonement to line back up. You may lose damage but you are on the same line you would've been if you didn't have down time. Planned/Forced OLD PLD down time, don't use your dot. MIND BLOWN. New PLD down time? If you are lucky drop an atonement or two. But if it is long enough of down time hard cast HS..................I hope the boss walks back over to you, and that you want the boss to move that way.

I'm just mad that a rotation change occurred in the middle of an expansion, and that it changed the filler GCDs more than it did the burst. But hey, it's my fault for liking and only playing a job that wasn't popular.

[Gserpent]

I'm just mad that a rotation change occurred in the middle of an expansion, and that it changed the filler GCDs more than it did the burst. But hey, it's my fault for liking and only playing a job that wasn't popular.

I'm not even mad about the rotation changes. We knew from the moment they announced a planned rework that the rotation would change. I wouldn't *like* the rotation being a clone of WAR or GNB or DRK, but those are functional rotations so it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have it happen - at least then you know you're getting a functional, tuned rotation.

But we didn't get that. We got a "rework" that still left in the two major issues with the old rotation (having to drop Atonements and Holy Spirit being keyed to spell speed instead of skill speed), which begs the question of... why even rework the rotation at all? Bulwark will be useless against tankbuster bleeds, but whatever - that just means it's a button like Cover and Shield Bash you can just not even bother putting onto your bars.

[Kabooa]

Rant time
Lets talk defensives first. Old PLD had one less personal, but could still clear all content as OT and MT. So saying it NEEDED Bulwark in an emergency rework is dumb. If it came out as a expansion leveling action I wouldn't care are all.
I will say the idea of having more mit is great, but Bulwark isn't it champ. Block is the problem! SE clearly knows that by taking it off sheltron. The only use I see for Bulwark is I guess autos?
Regarding Divine Veil... With the changes to HS and Confiteor procing it why remove the 'jank' of needed the heal to pop it. Having the ability to use DV early so that it would be off cool down for raid wides closer than 90s was nice. I also could've sworn the old version did a small heal AND shield.
PoA haters. STOP. It is an extra party wide mit. You can weave it and for a GCD you get the mit WITH NO LOSS OF DAMAGE! If you are complaining about it only working behind you, how do you want it to work? be another bubble?
Now Holy sheltron. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the blocking was taking off this action for bleeds? Did I not read the "Knight's Resolve" effect right? Did it not already do exactly what people were saying it didn't? Also why is this effect still in the game? is it 30% for the first 4 seconds?
Cover is trash still. Why ever use it over intervention? Speaking of which to Sheltron or intervention, that is the question. "Sorry co-tank I can't put my targetable on you, I used it on my personal earlier." Why make these a shared 'cooldown' and why make the gauge be based on auto attacks. It makes as much sense as having it be based of damage received.

Bulwark is added as a situational bonus CD, similar to Camoflauge, Darkmind, and Thrill of Battle. If anything it's one of the better ones, primarily because block applies to everything but bleeds. In other words, if they diversify their busters, all the 60/90 sit-CDs are roughly the same. Block still reduces non-True damage that isn't DoT based. It will work on initial buster hits.

I think anyone who liked old DV was making excuses. Sure, you had some fringe cases of unique use, but I'll maintain those suckers were stockholmed by how it worked just like every version of Machinist suckered people into liking it.

PoA could be better.

It's 15% + 15%, just like Heart of Corundrum. You can also RNG block or stack Bulwark on top of it for even more mitigation if you really want to. There's literally no downside to this change.

Cover lets you save someone, in a manner that requires very few other conditions to be present. Every other tank-helper comes with caveats, of needing enough baseline HP for the mitigation to matter, that TBN is much weaker on non-tanks, or if you have the time to pump health into them from warriors. Cover is click the button, that person is safe at your expense. This iteration isn't meant to be for your co-tank, but it can be used in some situations for them.

[DoubleOneOne]

I think anyone who liked old DV was making excuses. Sure, you had some fringe cases of unique use, but I'll maintain those suckers were stockholmed by how it worked just like every version of Machinist suckered people into liking it.

PoA could be better.

Stockholmed? Was it that hard to ask a heal from your healers? and I guess all of P7S is a fringe case cause I kept it on cooldown most fight with out any assistance and it being useful every time. With the new rotation could you not wait 15.5 to pop it your self? The buff is a shield not mit and it lasts 30s after it pops. So you could put it up at any time in the fight still.

You make a strong point about PoA.

[CKNovel]

Stockholmed? Was it that hard to ask a heal from your healers? and I guess all of P7S is a fringe case cause I kept it on cooldown most fight with out any assistance and it being useful every time. With the new rotation could you not wait 15.5 to pop it your self? The buff is a shield not mit and it lasts 30s after it pops. So you could put it up at any time in the fight still.

You make a strong point about PoA.

Here's the thing, it's like BRD's Nature's Minne.

They've lost the strong synergy with SCH shield but instead got much more applications.
The same happens to Divine Veil, you lose the few cases where its gimmick was good but you win much more applications.
A barrier that can be delayed is sometimes good, but a barrier that instantly applies is always better.

[Duskane]

Regen on Knights resolve doesn't actually mitigate the damage on bleeds though,
bleed ticks for more than you can regen while sheltron % mitigation will be way more effective now.

personally my problem with the rework is the fact its a worse warrior but not in the typical fell cleave response but the fact it does the same thing every 60 seconds ,WAR is the same but it atleast breaks up the monotony with the infuriate trait, also atonement still breaking combo and only allowed for one stack of holy spirit/circle feels so bad.

[Rithy255]

Offensive Side of PLD Can't complain too much, rotation feels "ok" I don't think it's better then the old one, but if they made some adjustments to this new one I can say with certainty it would actually be something that I really like, I think Atonement, Goring blade need adjustments, I'd like to see holy spirits maybe holding up to 2 stacks but you get stacks a bit more faster (maybe by doing all atonements you get one), In general I'm happy it's pretty decent feels a lot better then DRK/WAR for me, Holy spirit feels so good to hold for sustain and ranged.

Divine veil change was good, I don't think it was bad or in need of changing, but it makes it a lot less annoying to use also effects you (which actually might be small but its still nice to have a self barrier on PLD), sure you can speak with healers but that doesn't take into account that a lot of people run PF's or play the game casually, it's more of a nice QOL more then anything, generally happy about the changes, would like at least the regen effect instead of the upfront heal effect as it's more useful, I'd personally make the barrier a bit stronger on warriors but also remove the upfront heal (prolly buff DRK/GNB'S raid wides aswell to like a 15%), but I think Passage would need to also change if PLD's veil is weaker.

Bulwark is like Camo or Dark Mind, can be situationally worse depending on the situation, but i generally think it's actually Pretty consistent because even if you don't block the DOT's of the tank buster You will mitigate the Buster itself, Holy Shelltron is also way more consistent, Bulwark is a Tanking CD that's been lacking on PLD and while it isn't the best one I think it's actually pretty great compared to something like Camo (Dark mind is likely the best one because most fights use magical).

Passage of arms likely won't be change, because "pretty animation" which is a big disappointment, theirs a argument that forming a cone around the PLD and snapshotting it is "unique" but that's just the bad type of Unique, I much rather have something like temperance even if it's like a 10% mitigation I rather that then it stay as it is.

Other stuff Please fix cover, Give shield bash something to do or remove it, make space for abilities by removing Intervention, Allow holy shelltron & Normal shelltron target other people, make Oath gauge based on 40 seconds to fill to 100 or something, IDM Hallowed ground remaining the longest if PLD's got the best utility and on par defensives as long as Invuls aren't really going to be overused I think it makes for a "downside".

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Other stuff Please fix cover, Give shield bash something to do or remove it, make space for abilities by removing Intervention, Allow holy shelltron & Normal shelltron target other people, make Oath gauge based on 40 seconds to fill to 100 or something, IDM Hallowed ground remaining the longest if PLD's got the best utility and on par defensives as long as Invuls aren't really going to be overused I think it makes for a "downside".

I'm sorry but your Intervention gripe is actually annoying. It's by far one of the best OT skills in the game, and one of it's strongest interactions is during content where double busters happen, allowing PLD to use Sheltron on themselves and throw an intervention on their co-tank, allowing their co-tank to share their short mit with the Paladin instead. Your suggestion neuters the kit, and seriously button bloat is not an excuse to get rid of it. Also the whole "we can't stand homogenisation" but then people asking for so many things to be homogenised it's just so....HUH?

If any of the oath gauge actions needing tossed in the trash is Cover, no contest. When it was as good as it was in SB, no iteration but that iteration will be even remotely good enough to any veteran Paladin player, without making the skill outright broken, tbh, Cover had its day, but it's not needed, and these fringe cases of oh I can cover the healer to save a run, more often than, will fall flat on it's face and you take double damage from a raidwide die, and the healer gets auto'd and just straight up dies. Sure you will get the odd run where it is successful but it's so niche that it's gathering dust more often than not.

[Rithy255]

I'm sorry but your Intervention gripe is actually annoying. It's by far one of the best OT skills in the game, and one of it's strongest interactions is during content where double busters happen, allowing PLD to use Sheltron on themselves and throw an intervention on their co-tank, allowing their co-tank to share their short mit with the Paladin instead. Your suggestion neuters the kit, and seriously button bloat is not an excuse to get rid of it. Also the whole "we can't stand homogenisation" but then people asking for so many things to be homogenised it's just so....HUH?

If any of the oath gauge actions needing tossed in the trash is Cover, no contest. When it was as good as it was in SB, no iteration but that iteration will be even remotely good enough to any veteran Paladin player, without making the skill outright broken, tbh, Cover had its day, but it's not needed, and these fringe cases of oh I can cover the healer to save a run, more often than, will fall flat on it's face and you take double damage from a raidwide die, and the healer gets auto'd and just straight up dies. Sure you will get the odd run where it is successful but it's so niche that it's gathering dust more often than not.

If I was to remove Intervention I'd make Shelltron on 2/3 seconds so it retains it's "double tank buster" use, I personally don't see how that would change PLD in anyway and it would reduce button bloat easily.

its not homogenisation Intervention is just slightly worse holy shelltron for a friend right now lol (other then being able to use it on double tank busters)