Please stop removing Damage Over Time effects from every job, add more complexity

[Melethron123]

Thunder III is quite literally more complex than anything any other non-BLM job has

if you think forcing procs with an ogcd that holds 2 charges and has a cooldown equal to the dot's duration is complex, sure

[Shurrikhan]

if you think forcing procs with an ogcd that holds 2 charges and has a cooldown equal to the dot's duration is complex, sure

Sharpcast is clearly not what's being referred to. Thunder's complexity comes from the varying net value of the cast based on upcoming uptime.

And it, too, offered more complexity and agency in the past when you could use any of three durations and cast times in order to minimize lower-value time spent and maximize portion of higher-value time spent (e.g., within Astral Fire, or with old no-AF-refresh F4 spams, ARR quick-Flare, etc.) -- part of the reason why many requested it be turned into a quantized charged-up cast (e.g., charging up to a total of a 2.0, 2.5, or 3.0s cast), as seen in some other MMOs, instead of just being turned into a single option when its button count was consolidated.

[Nizzi]

if you think forcing procs with an ogcd that holds 2 charges and has a cooldown equal to the dot's duration is complex, sure

It's very telling when you try to be reductive instead of offering something you think is complex instead as a counterargument

[Ransu]

Thunder III is quite literally more complex than anything any other non-BLM job has

I wouldn't say its complex, but its drifts pretty damn hard which makes timing when to refresh while dealing with enochian kind of annoying.

[Commander_Justitia]

The issue is, back when scholar/whm etc. had many dots, you started fighting a boss in a raid or openworld scenario (eureka, BA etc.) and the dots didnt apply; it would show something like "Thunder III - No effect" as if the mob would be resisting it, simply because the maximum number of dots has been reached on that mob. Thus your damage didn't even contribute to killing that mob. Then they started removing dots over dots. Now it is basically helping them maintain a healthy level of debuff/dots so they can display enough other stuff on the screen.

[AlexaAura]

Could not agree more with the Original poster. Summoner was my main dps class, I loved that it was complex and that you had to maintain the dots, then they reworked it and i never play it now. Now they are reworking paladin and removing it's dots as well. Very disappointed.

[dspguy]

Possibly the closest we've had to "complex application of DoTs" is BRD before they started increasing the duration of Caustic/Stormbite up to 45s. While reapplying wasn't complex, but you wanted to work backwards to time your DoTs so ideally you'd be refreshing Iron Jaws in that 2-0s window so you get the extra tick while also landing it on some sort of beneficial buff - whether it be a self-buff (RS) or a group buff (like chain). Or you'd have to do a fight long enough to figure out that since the boss jumps at a certain time, it might make sense to let IJ drop entirely since you wouldn't get enough ticks.

When there were less ticks per DoT, getting that last tick became more important. However, they dropped the potency of Caustic/Stormbite back in ShB (if I recall?). So while it is nice to get that last tick, the DPS loss is smaller. Of course, you'd rather land IJ a tick early than have to spend 1 extra GCD reapply both DoTs individually.

[Shurrikhan]

Possibly the closest we've had to "complex application of DoTs" is BRD before they started increasing the duration of Caustic/Stormbite up to 45s. While reapplying wasn't complex, but you wanted to work backwards to time your DoTs so ideally you'd be refreshing Iron Jaws in that 2-0s window so you get the extra tick while also landing it on some sort of beneficial buff - whether it be a self-buff (RS) or a group buff (like chain). Or you'd have to do a fight long enough to figure out that since the boss jumps at a certain time, it might make sense to let IJ drop entirely since you wouldn't get enough ticks.

When there were less ticks per DoT, getting that last tick became more important. However, they dropped the potency of Caustic/Stormbite back in ShB (if I recall?). So while it is nice to get that last tick, the DPS loss is smaller. Of course, you'd rather land IJ a tick early than have to spend 1 extra GCD reapply both DoTs individually.

I'd argue nearly the opposite, especially since moving past the 18s duration and having lost any notable crit synergy (Internal Release nerfs/removal) or more desireable conditions for reapplication (e.g., HW Wanderer's Minuet stance).

The opportunity cost Iron Jaws added to letting DoTs drop for even a moment made the timing that much less flexible, which ended up making opportunities to leverage Bard's DoTs interestingly all the fewer than, say, Lead Shot, Fracture, or Mutilate, and since it was an open action, the added punishment for letting either DoT drop didn't amount to anything, gameplay-wise. Apart from delaying for a single GCD more of Heavy Shot after Aimed Shot, one couldn't actually do anything with that idea of "working backward" from a desired moment of reapplication, and once at a 30s duration (now an absurd 45s), those durations synced up automatically anyways.

It was close to doing a decent bit well, but it shortchanged itself.

However, they dropped the potency of Caustic/Stormbite back in ShB (if I recall?).

They did indeed, bringing our sustained multi-DoT damage a fair bit closer to our single-target and deemphasizing the costs of trimming DoT ticks.

[Payadopa]

The funny thing is, as much as I dislike DoTs I like it on RPR. They aren't that dissimilar. I think the difference for me is that once it goes below 30 I at least have the option of when to apply another 30 seconds. I find that more engaging. I'm fine with a dedicated job for DoTs but the rest should just be replaced with something interesting.

[Sparkthor]

Or maybe just consider that all rotations are and were relativly easy to pull and complexity went more from bosses and their mechanics ? In top on complexity being a subjective thing.
With few guides and some training everybody is able to do correct things on a dummy. It's not like FFXIV needs miliseconds perfects thing to pull off the max of everyjobs.