Please stop removing Damage Over Time effects from every job, add more complexity

[Absurdity]

People seem to be conflating busy with difficult or punishing, HW DRG wasn't busier, it was more punishing. Missing positionals led to a significant potency loss and rotational mistakes could easily end up with you dropping Blood of the Dragon, leading to an even higher dps loss.

Current Dark Knight is incredibly busy during burst phases, but that doesn't make it difficult just because you have to spam a lot of oGCDs.

[Shurrikhan]

People seem to be conflating busy with difficult or punishing, HW DRG wasn't busier, it was more punishing. Missing positionals led to a significant potency loss and rotational mistakes could easily end up with you dropping Blood of the Dragon, leading to an even higher dps loss.

That's not necessarily a conflation; the posts just claimed, as is very easily argued, that HW DRG happened to be both.

You had faintly higher oGCD density, slightly more decision-making, and couldn't so automate your positionals. The positionals could be just 20 potency bonuses each and, so long as most DRGs would opt to them, the way BotD worked then would still leave it a busier job due to a combination of apm and watching and leveraging one's remaining BotD duration and CD to spend towards Geirskogul keeping you more on your toes.

Not a better designed one. Not even necessarily a more difficult one. But a slightly busier one, independent of its being more punishing.

[ForsakenRoe]

'complexity is when many ogcd in burst window, the more ogcd the more complexity'

[Melethron123]

'complexity is when many ogcd in burst window, the more ogcd the more complexity'

wait until you hear about people who think refreshing dots is complex

[Shurrikhan]

wait until you hear about people who think refreshing dots is complex

No one has ever said this.

Though, as with any not innately synced buff or cooldown with a decent bit of context, making optimal choices and tracking additional considerations, yes, adds complexity.



A DoT/debuffing GCD is just a soft CD (much like any buffing GCD) with additional considerations based on target count.

It's certainly not going to be any less complex given the same contexts that would allow for a buff to be interesting (e.g., Twin Snakes at sufficient Skill Speed, rather than Disembowel; Stormblood SAM more so than Shadowbringers/Endwalker), as it's just taking something already capable of a fair bit of contextual nuance and simply adding another layer to work with.

[Melethron123]

It's certainly not going to be any less complex given the same contexts that would allow for a buff to be interesting (e.g., Twin Snakes at sufficient Skill Speed, rather than Disembowel; Stormblood SAM more so than Shadowbringers/Endwalker), as it's just taking something already capable of a fair bit of contextual nuance and simply adding another layer to work with.

you're right in saying that perma-buffs are equally as interesting as perma-dots, since both are very uninteresting. at the end of the day, they just exist to force DRG MNK and PLD to press the "other combo" without having to design interesting skills or interactions.

[VentVanitas]

at the end of the day, they just exist to force DRG MNK and PLD to press the "other combo" without having to design interesting skills or interactions.

What MNK has is fine, and forcing any other change on Twin Snakes/Demolish from the same people that work with the mindset of "idk what to do so let's just delete it" will only lead to disaster. Let's just leave literally the least problematic aspect of MNK (barring Dragon Kick) alone, yeah?

[Shurrikhan]

you're right in saying that perma-buffs are equally as interesting as perma-dots, since both are very uninteresting. at the end of the day, they just exist to force DRG MNK and PLD to press the "other combo" without having to design interesting skills or interactions.

A fixed combo (de)buff is dull, yes. See Disembowel or Chaos Thrust in single-target.

Demolish, though, is not that. Nor would any other (de)buff need to be. And you're still arguing to replace something able to carry contextual nuance with... absolutely nothing?

Again, there's nothing mutually exclusive about any form of soft CD, be it buff, debuff (just an extra layer of complexity), or prorated ability, and complexity elsewhere. On the contrary, more flexible anchors like soft CDs tend to be better able to leverage and/or interact with complexity elsewhere. They just can't, by themselves, fix a stale/inflexible rotation.

[Marxam]

wait until you hear about people who think refreshing dots is complex

wait until you hear about people saying that pressing buttons is complicated.

[Nizzi]

wait until you hear about people who think refreshing dots is complex

Thunder III is quite literally more complex than anything any other non-BLM job has