Please stop removing Damage Over Time effects from every job, add more complexity

[Ransu]

they're removing dots because the devs love making bosses invulnerable, so jobs that heavily rely on dots to deal damage get screwed by them

Which makes me wonder what they have planned for thunder with BLM's in the future. I feel like sharpcast is the only reason thunder still exists lol.

[Absurdity]

Which makes me wonder what they have planned for thunder with BLM's in the future. I feel like sharpcast is the only reason thunder still exists lol.

Well, the procs still serve as a potential movement tool for BLM so it isn't quite in the same situation as almost all other DoTs.

It was more than that, as (if I remember right) the dev team were getting actual death threats by players in Japan from the potency changes released. You think NA players can be bad, JP players are worse about things like this.

Not just bad, apparently also stupid. Because nothing has changed, instead of nerfing one job they just buff everyone else which still leads to the same result, except for all our numbers getting increasingly bloated again.

[Payadopa]

I hate agreeing with Flamesorceress as much as the next forum poster, but they are right. One DoT garbage. I'd rather have a job that does DoTs. Also, jobs in general need more complexity.

[dspguy]

Removal of dots is just the continued simplification of the game. Eventually we'll get to the point where the game is like Just Dance, Theatrhythm or the twice-used Starlight Celebration minigame in FFXIV. We'll do our button press dance in a certain order and be graded on on how well we timed all of our abilities and be granted a score. If all 8 scores in the party add up to a certain number, you win. Otherwise, you wipe.

[Marxam]

Dots are just applied to slow. Small potency every 3 secs is just not worth it anymore given the speed of the game now. Dots can only stay in this game if they fall into one of two categories:

a) Deal massive tick dmg like Lost Flare Star in bozja, or,
b) Deal tick dmg faster i.e. one tick per second on a 10 sec duration

[Duskane]

if goring blade is storms eye 2 a Dot / Damage buff isn't that different in terms of gameplay you will still manage it the same way

[Shurrikhan]

Dots are just applied to slow. Small potency every 3 secs is just not worth it anymore given the speed of the game now. Dots can only stay in this game if they fall into one of two categories:

a) Deal massive tick dmg like Lost Flare Star in bozja, or,
b) Deal tick dmg faster i.e. one tick per second on a 10 sec duration

...Both are just X damage in Y seconds. And they're typically already quite high PPGCD.

Goring Blade, for instance, is 705 potency in total. Royal Authority, tied for the second strongest combo skill, is just 420 potency.

Even with the DoT devalued following level 84, a Goring Blade combo is therefore 401.7 ppgcd, while Royal Authority->Atonement is still just 363.3 ppgcd.

You'd have to lose over 5.3 seconds of the DoT for Goring Blade to not be worth it (though even then, because Royal Authority only reaches that ppgcd if it gets all 6 steps in, you'd only really drop Goring Blade from if you'd have lost more 13+ seconds out of Goring's 21... in which case you wouldn't have time to use but a single Atonement anyways, at which point it's just 335 ppgcd).

You don't need DoTs to be ridiculously OP to be useful or enjoyable. They just need to be just strong enough that their buyback period (the period after which they outperform the next best option) isn't too often eclipsed. They're already well designed for flexibility and openness to nuance (though it must still come from context) compared to other options by being, effectively (A) soft-CDs (B) with, in essence, a separate cooldown per target (up until replacement by one's AoE [combo]).

if goring blade is storms eye 2 a Dot / Damage buff isn't that different in terms of gameplay you will still manage it the same way

Ehhh... not quite.

If Storm's Eye still capped at only a single application's worth of duration, that'd be true, but now Storm's Eye can go up to 60 seconds between one application and the next (rather than 21 seconds), and it doesn't punish you for refreshing it more often than 1 in 4 combos so long as one has no more than 30 seconds of duration at the time. On the other hand, Goring Blade completely wastes any remaining duration at time of application, must be applied per 1 in 3 combos per target, and effectively has a separate "cooldown" per target involved up until the point that Prominence combo outpaces it.

Turning Goring Blade into a (modern) Storm's Eye (or "Surging Tempest") buff could actually change its gameplay a fair bit, especially outside of unabated-uptime single-target situations.

[MartaDemireux]

I think the same feel of DoT gameplay could be easily achieved using a gauge-focused job instead. It really just boils down to timer management, but without the risk of maxing out debuffs on the enemy and the other associated problems DoTs have in this game. I'll use a Chemist idea I've had as an example for ease of terminology:

First, a single marker/conduit is placed on the enemy, similar to RPR, or as an offensive Kardia. This marker does no damage on its own and has no timer on it. Another way to think of it would be dance partnering the enemy. As you cast your "DoTs" the target of your conduit begins to suffer damage. Like with a dance partner, only one can be active at any time. An AoE version that overwrites and is overwritten would also available to balance potencies in AoE situations.

The job gauge, which determines how much damage the conduit is inflicting, is made up of several vials/flasks/beakers (3 or 4). Each time you cast your "DoTs" on the enemy, your really just filling your vials. Each vial could have its own size/shape that helps to reflect its duration (multiple timers of differing maximums is usually desired in DoT gameplay). These vials would begin to drain into a reservoir.

The reservoir would be a secondary gauge used to do the standard DoT interactions such as refilling all vials at once, or to use that mixture of chemicals into a high potency attack. When a boss invulns, the vials are continuing to drain into the reservoir so there aren't any "wasted ticks" during phase changes. When the boss is about to come back, you could use the refilling ability, and refill each vial proportionately while consuming the entire reservoir (something like 100% full reservoir would refill every vial by 50% to encourage their future maintenance). Maybe include a vial emptying ability that lets you fully drain all vials to max out the reservoir instantly for 2min burst windows. There's really a lot of options that open up when the attention is diverted to the job gauge to create a sustained damage over time job.

[LifeupOmega]

What I would give for an Affli Warlock job in XIV, maybe they're nuking DoTs on everyone else to make way for this approach.

/copium

[Almandaragal]

Keeping up DoTs isn't actually engaging, though. It's busy work. I dislike playing (most) classes with DoTs for the same reason I mostly dislike playing melee: Busywork upkeep timers. There's no actual need to make melee need to upkeep a "damage up debuff"; just bake a little more potency in. However, that then removes the "need" for the 2nd combo, since the typical point of said secondary combo for upkeep jobs is that upkeep just to make you press different buttons. It gets even more "fun" when the debuffs are ridiculously short and mechanics or boss downtime wrecks your upkeep.

I understand that for some people, having to upkeep the DoT or debuff is entertaining. As the OP implied for themselves, they seem to like the juggling. I'm glad that some people enjoy it. I personally find it stupid, especially when the timers are under 30 seconds of duration. I play RDM because I don't have to deal with that crap. There's also a bit of freedom in terms of being able to hold a burst for movement, or wait a few more seconds until a buff is off cooldown, etc. I'm not chained (as much) to specific timers. I personally say good riddance to most of them, in their current forms. If the whole max debuffs on a target thing wasn't a thing, I'd say bring on a job more based around DoTs; but that won't happen anytime soon. DoT doesn't play well with a singular, focused burst meta, so expect them to keep removing DoTs where possible.

All that aside, because this IS the tank forum (despite this topic being more general feedback), engaging tank play shouldn't have anything to do with DoT upkeep anyway. Unfortunately, engaging content for a tank requires either more mitigation needed, or mob management, etc. My personal hope is that in streamlining/simplifying how tanks play, they'll be able to then create more engaging scenarios come 7.x. I'm not holding my breath, but you do need some groundwork laid before you make sweeping changes to how encounters are done. Whether or not that's their plan I have no idea, but I won't cry seeing most DoTs disappear, especially if it makes way for updated skill pools and/or encounter design.