PLD changes; thoughts?

[Gserpent]

PLD is going to react to tankbusters and incoming damage the same as any other tank now. I dislike homogenization as a general rule of thumb but you definitely can't have tanks having different levels of effective mitigation in the way this game handles its raid design.

[Melethron123]

PLD is going to react to tankbusters and incoming damage the same as any other tank now. I dislike homogenization as a general rule of thumb but you definitely can't have tanks having different levels of effective mitigation in the way this game handles its raid design.

don't they already invul/kitchen sink?

[Duskane]

don't they already invul/kitchen sink?

yes
they just require bit more baby sitting in some fights

[Rithy255]

PLD is going to react to tankbusters and incoming damage the same as any other tank now. I dislike homogenization as a general rule of thumb but you definitely can't have tanks having different levels of effective mitigation in the way this game handles its raid design.

PLD being able to kitchen sink better is imo a good change, just allows it to be less of a burden to healers, which y'know the "SHIELD TANK" should actually be at least on par with the other tanks defensively.

I dislike constant kitchen sinking anyway, makes using defensives require no skill or timing

[Absurdity]

don't they already invul/kitchen sink?

Yes and no. In Asphodelos you would invuln 1 buster and kitchen sink the other, which worked because busters were all simply a single big hit and paladin could deal with those just fine.


The problem was the current raid tier where invulns were severely nerfed due to the nature of how tank busters in Abyssos function. They almost all apply a DoT whose damage is dependant on how much damage the initial hit does. This means it is impossible to invuln a double hit buster that applies a vuln, sure you'll live through the buster but the DoT will tick for like 300K once your invuln runs out and this even applies to the true invulns Hallowed and Superbolide.

At face value that's not a problem, it does however become one when you take into account that block mitigation doesn't work on damage-over-time effects, making the 20% block mitigation from Shelltron entirely useless on the subsequent damage you're taking after the initial hit. So not only is paladin currently lacking 1 personal mitigation cooldown but part of the mitigation it does have doesn't even work.

This isn't just a problem for paladin however. Warrior's Thrill of Battle only increases maximum HP and provides no mitigation, which leads to warrior simply taking more damage on average than tanks that have more flat % mitigation cooldowns to stack for a buster.

Furthermore the fact that busters now apply a DoT, whose damage calculation makes Living Dead and Holmgang rather useless, means that the tactic of alternating between invulning one buster and then kitchen sinking the next doesn't work quite as well anymore.

[Gserpent]

Thrill not providing mitigation is partially compensated for via it also incorporating the old Convalescence effect - they need more healing, so they *receive* more healing too.

They also get Equilibrium, which is a powerful instant heal followed by a powerful regen effect. PLD isn't just missing a personal mitigation button, they're *also* missing the personal healing button too (because no PLD is using Clemency due to it being a substantial DPS loss. *Best* case scenario is it just replaces an Atonement...)

PLD will still be behind the curve if they haven't figured out something for Clemency or some other means of giving PLD more self-healing. Almost the entirety of their self-healing is contained in the Req window (8 actions at 400 potency each), so if their need for self-healing doesn't happen to coincide with when their Req window is coming up, they're up shit creek without a paddle. Meanwhile, WAR and GNB have powerful self-heals on a 60 sec cooldown, DRK has TBN on a 15 sec cooldown (instead of the ~25 of other tanks), more baseline mitigation due to Oblation charges, and for whatever it's worth they also have the most self-healing potency on their 1-2-3.

[Rithy255]

Thrill not providing mitigation is partially compensated for via it also incorporating the old Convalescence effect - they need more healing, so they *receive* more healing too.

They also get Equilibrium, which is a powerful instant heal followed by a powerful regen effect. PLD isn't just missing a personal mitigation button, they're *also* missing the personal healing button too (because no PLD is using Clemency due to it being a substantial DPS loss. *Best* case scenario is it just replaces an Atonement...)

PLD will still be behind the curve if they haven't figured out something for Clemency or some other means of giving PLD more self-healing. Almost the entirety of their self-healing is contained in the Req window (8 actions at 400 potency each), so if their need for self-healing doesn't happen to coincide with when their Req window is coming up, they're up shit creek without a paddle. Meanwhile, WAR and GNB have powerful self-heals on a 60 sec cooldown, DRK has TBN on a 15 sec cooldown (instead of the ~25 of other tanks), more baseline mitigation due to Oblation charges, and for whatever it's worth they also have the most self-healing potency on their 1-2-3.

You also realise you're getting holy spirits mid rotation now? did you see the changes?

[fulminating]

It sounds closer to cartridges than fell cleaves (even if cartridges are just a poorly disguised beast gauge).

[Gserpent]

You also realise you're getting holy spirits mid rotation now? did you see the changes?

What changes? Square-Enix are a bunch of pathetic cowards and won't actually tell us what's taking place, they just make coy little remarks and tell us to please look forward to the patch notes. All because people got upset at them this one time when they released their upcoming changes. Boo hoo.

One 400 potency cure every 4th GCD would put it roughly in line with the filler combo recovery the other tanks receive. It still wouldn't give us the large amount of on-demand healing - separate from DPS cycles - that the other tanks get.

[Rithy255]

What changes? Square-Enix are a bunch of pathetic cowards and won't actually tell us what's taking place, they just make coy little remarks and tell us to please look forward to the patch notes. All because people got upset at them this one time when they released their upcoming changes. Boo hoo.

One 400 potency cure every 4th GCD would put it roughly in line with the filler combo recovery the other tanks receive. It still wouldn't give us the large amount of on-demand healing - separate from DPS cycles - that the other tanks get.

You realise outside your burst you could likely line up holy spirits better when you're taking damage? You will actually be more free when you sustain yourself then other tanks in that reguard, PLD now has consistent combo healing, on demand healing with holy shelltron, and burst rotation healing, while I want stuff to be more timed, PLD's sustain is clearly on par with the other tanks if not better (apart from warrior), which if PLD had better sustain then warrior it would be really imbalanced, because PLD's already getting another defensive.

We haven't even seen the rest of the changes, which are likely still under some tuning tbh, as disappointed as I am it doesn't mean I have to disrespect people who actually put hard effort into the game I enjoy.