PLD changes; thoughts?

[LoadedVirus]

I feel like Goring Blade should be an OGcd either that or Fight or Flight needs to be slightly longer, other than that I'm pretty happy with the changes over all

[Gserpent]

Square Enix doesn't ever give a shit what their balancing does to any content that isn't current cap level

Which is fucking insane, given that they place a huge emphasis on using Duty Finder to help ensure people can do old content reliably.

Honestly, the XIV team need new leadership or management if Yoshida isn't going to get off his ass and get some work done on this. Let him handle the QA and nitty-gritty of content production because the team clearly excels under his leadership there, but let someone else take the reins for design. Or whoever is in charge of things like class design and management - if not Yoshida, whoever that person is. Because they're doing a frankly terrible job and have been doing a terrible job for some time now.

[Wyther]

Morning fellow Holy Knights!

How’s everyone doing this week?

Regarding its changes I must confess I feel pretty “grey” about it as it’s neither too enthusiastic yet not dissatisfied either.

The removal of our DoTs might’ve probably given us more advantage for DMG boost or slightly hindering.

What are your thoughts however?

PS: Still loving PLD as always <3

I walked away from the class.

I wont play Paladin ever again.

They 100% did NOT need this.

To say I'm dissapointed is an understatement. I know I wont be the only one.

[True-to-Caesar]

I walked away from the class.

I wont play Paladin ever again.

They 100% did NOT need this.

To say I'm dissapointed is an understatement. I know I wont be the only one.

Logged today to test the paladin changes after switching to GNB and DRK a bit in 6.2.

While there are some real QoL and improvements, such as Veil or like having a free Holy/Circle (makes the AoE combo less dull), I’m not a fan of how they pigeonholed everything into FoF which also now feels a tad bit too short. Cover is still useless, with Oath cost + too situational. Bullwark as another defensive cd was long overdue.

I do feel GNB can be clunky but after testing PLD it felt worse. Could be a question of habit but right now it def doesn’t make me want to go back.to PLD.

[TheDustyOne]

I don't like this new rotation, it feels far worse without the DoT giving that sense of flow, instead we spam Royal Authority > Atonement, back to back with only 1 Holy Spirit to break it up between them.

Goring being a 60s cooldown with nothing else going for it is pathetic. No interaction with any other ability, no extra resources generated, nothing, just press it after you use FoF. The ability now feels vestigial, like they wanted to get rid of it but realized people would complain, and couldn't think of an actual good reason to keep it around.

If they wanted to remove the DoT and have the Goring combo mean something rather than just reducing it to a mere cooldown, one option I would've done would be to make it generate the new Divine Might buff, while Royal Authority > Atonement regenerates MP for Holy Spirit. At least that would've made sense and the 2 combos would compliment each other as Spender/Generator combos.

The fact that our rotation is still 26 GCDs long, and that our spells STILL don't get reduced recast with our skill speed, means that we're stuck again with a rotation about 63 seconds long, and with that, still have to sacrifice a Sword Oath stack.

Requiescat could just as easily be removed by making Confiteor a 60s cooldown and its potency spread across other abilities, that's the only reason this button even exists in this current rotation. Holy Spirit being boosted by Req is only for lower levels or to act as a noob trap.

I don't really care if this rotation solves the problem of Paladin not being bursty enough every 2 minutes, that's a separate discussion, what I do care about though is that the job I loved is now effectively removed from the game in favour of something I find dull. As far as I'm concerned, if the feel of a job isn't something I like, I don't want to play it, regardless of its performance in DPS charts. It's why I haven't enjoyed Samurai since they removed Kaiten, or why I don't enjoy Scholar as much without the DoTs we lost since the healer reworks in Shadowbringers.

At least the defensive changes are nice, I'm happy to see Bulwark back, Divine Veil change was long overdue and Holy Sheltron is finally useful for those DoT busters. That said I still have criticisms, why bother having separate buttons for Sheltron and Intervention if they generally do the same thing? Have Intervention give me a 15% mit if I use it on myself or 10% on another player, that way we only need one of those buttons. Hell, we wouldn't have needed Bulwark if Intervention worked like that since Holy Sheltron could've been that unique 90s mitigation instead. Paladin already has fairly cramped hotbar space, so having to put Bulwark in is getting excessive.

Cover is still too niche in my opinion, giving it some mitigation like in Stormblood or removing the Oath cost would be far more helpful. Instead I find myself throwing around Interventions in its place since the mitigation and regen does a better job of looking after the party. Cover only gets use if a party member would die without it.

I'm thinking of going with Gunbreaker instead for this expansion. I don't like how Paladins rotation plays now.

[ForsakenRoe]

If they wanted to remove the DoT and have the Goring combo mean something rather than just reducing it to a mere cooldown, one option I would've done would be to make it generate the new Divine Might buff, while Royal Authority > Atonement regenerates MP for Holy Spirit. At least that would've made sense and the 2 combos would compliment each other as Spender/Generator combos.

That's what I was saying, having Conf>Blade>Blade>Blade as a combo each 60s is a 10sec 'block', Fast>Riot>Goring>HS is a 10s 'block' that consumes MP, Fast>Riot>RA>Atone (one of them) is a 10s 'block' that regenerates MP. Stitch together a 60s loop out of 6 of these 'blocks' based on fight timings (default of 2 RA/3 Goring, extra MP requirement is covered by natural regen), bam job done. It'd still retain at least a tiny bit of optimization leeway, IE, you could know 'ah there's High Concept coming up, I can't hit the boss, I'll dump extra Goring>HS combos in advance, so I'm regenerating MP during the downtime instead of capping'. It wasn't exactly hard to come up with an idea like this either, but SE somehow managed to miss what I'd consider one of the most logical rework outcomes possible, in favour of... a pseudo 7step combo, Atonement STILL breaking your 123, and STILL having the weird unintuitive 'drop some Atonements from each loop lmao' noobtrap thing

[Gserpent]

I don't really care if this rotation solves the problem of Paladin not being bursty enough every 2 minutes, that's a separate discussion, what I do care about though is that the job I loved is now effectively removed from the game in favour of something I find dull. As far as I'm concerned, if the feel of a job isn't something I like, I don't want to play it, regardless of its performance in DPS charts. It's why I haven't enjoyed Samurai since they removed Kaiten, or why I don't enjoy Scholar as much without the DoTs we lost since the healer reworks in Shadowbringers.

At least the defensive changes are nice, I'm happy to see Bulwark back, Divine Veil change was long overdue and Holy Sheltron is finally useful for those DoT busters. That said I still have criticisms, why bother having separate buttons for Sheltron and Intervention if they generally do the same thing? Have Intervention give me a 15% mit if I use it on myself or 10% on another player, that way we only need one of those buttons. Hell, we wouldn't have needed Bulwark if Intervention worked like that since Holy Sheltron could've been that unique 90s mitigation instead. Paladin already has fairly cramped hotbar space, so having to put Bulwark in is getting excessive.

Cover is still too niche in my opinion, giving it some mitigation like in Stormblood or removing the Oath cost would be far more helpful. Instead I find myself throwing around Interventions in its place since the mitigation and regen does a better job of looking after the party. Cover only gets use if a party member would die without it.

I'm thinking of going with Gunbreaker instead for this expansion. I don't like how Paladins rotation plays now.

It's honestly some of the most slapdash, lazy shit I've ever seen come out of CBU3. I know we'll never get any straight answers, but I honestly wonder what went into changes that are this half-assed - was it time constraints and they had to push out what they could? Was it lack of testing? Was it the people spearheading the process just, to be blunt, suck at their jobs? I mean, "lazy" might be off-base but... fuck, man, I'm running out of excuses to cover them with. This isn't the first example of this kind of threadbare design in Endwalker, this has been a fucking *pattern.*

At a surface level, the changes seem okay, but the very moment you start putting this into an example/sim rotation or gameplay examples, you realize that this marginally improved a few things that weren't really an issue before (PLD's DPS was acceptable, if not good) while leaving untouched things that are core design/gameflow issues like you've mentioned - spells being on SpS instead of SkS, too many GCDs per cycle leading to us having to drop one, etc. I'd also add in the frankly impressive amount of incompetence that's involved in addressing the "can't block bleeds" issue in Sheltron and *simultaneously* reintroduce that issue with Bulwark, instead of just copying Camouflage and giving it 10% DR and mathing out what amount of bonus block chance it should give to provide the intended ~15% DR over its duration.

Divine Veil is also clearly being punished for Passage still existing (or, rather, Shake It Off was boosted since WAR doesn't have Passage), yet Passage wasn't changed in any way that would make it more practically useful for a typical DF/PF group.

I can't speak for JP, but I've seen *plenty* of fantastic outlines for a rework of the class here and elsewhere. Like... if your in-house people suck, just fucking copy the homework your dedicated players are doing for you and then tweak it here and there to fit what the game requires it to be. I'd be amazed if NA/EU is the only place that's produced high quality "class rework" concepts, though.

[Kemeko]

The issue is the Divine Might system is incomplete and poorly implemented. Divine Might and Requiescat are supposed to be the same potency and you combine them when under the effect of both. It's supposed to stack up to 5 as well. Missing Shield Bash combo system to complement it. Sword Oath system boosts [Fast Blade][Riot Blade][Shield Bash] to same potency as [Atonement]. Fight or Flight is supposed to be physical only to mirror Requiescat. Goring Blade is 15% all damage buff and 1 Divine Might, Royal Authority is 3 Sword Oath and 1 Divine Might, Atonement is 2 Sword Oath and 2 Divine Might. Atonement is both a standalone combo and a filler. Clemency gives 2 Divine Might when used with Divine Veil, since Divine Veil would be a healing version of Requiescat. So you can use it to restore Oath gauge (1000 mp cost = 10 oath) and prep for a burst window during downtime when using it with Requiescat. (Fight or Flight 10 gcd physical = Requiescat 5 gcd magical) This physical/magic ratio must be respected to achieve balance with potencies on both burst windows.

[Fast Blade][Riot Blade][Goring Blade][Holy Spirit] Flows naturally.
[Fast Blade][Riot Blade][Royal Authority][Holy Spirit] Flows naturally.
[Fast Blade][Riot Blade][Atonement][Holy Spirit] Flows naturally.
[Fast Blade][Riot Blade][Atonement][Atonement][Atonement][Holy Spirit][Holy Spirit] Flows naturally.
[Shield Bash][Goring Blade][Holy Spirit] Flows naturally.
[Shield Bash][Royal Authority][Holy Spirit] Flows naturally.
[Shield Bash][Atonement][Holy Spirit] Flows naturally.
[Shield Bash][Atonement][Atonement][Atonement][Holy Spirit][Holy Spirit] Flows naturally.
[Total Eclipse][Prominence][Holy Circle] Flows naturally.

[Fast Blade][Riot Blade][Royal Authority][Atonement][Atonement][Atonement][Holy Spirit] Does not flow naturally.

We were left with the worst combo that doesn't complement Divine Might well.

Idealized Rotation (2.5 gcd):

Physical Phase [Fight or Flight]
[Shield Bash][Goring Blade]
[Fast Blade][Riot Blade][Royal Authority]
[Fast Blade][Riot Blade][Atonement]
[Shield Bash][Goring Blade]

Magic Phase [Requiescat]
[Holy Spirit][Holy Spirit][Holy Spirit][Holy Spirit]
[Confiteor][Blade of Faith][Blade of Truth][Blade of Valor]

Filler Phase [Unbuffed]
[Fast Blade][Riot Blade][Royal Authority]
[Fast Blade][Riot Blade][Atonement]

Healing Phase [Divine Veil]
[Clemency][Holy Spirit][Clemency][Holy Spirit][Holy Spirit]

Potency Examples:

Atonement: 300
Atonement (FoF): 375
Holy Spirit: 190
Holy Spirit (Req): 380
Holy Spirit (Divine Might): 380
Holy Spirit (Req + Divine Might): 760
Holy Circle: 130
Holy Circle (Req): 260
Holy Circle (Divine Might): 260
Holy Circle (Req + Divine Might): 520

[Marxam]

At least PLD didn't get 100% crit DH. GB already does more dmg than PR so count your blessing they didn't mess it up too bad.

[RyuuZero]

I can't speak for JP, but I've seen *plenty* of fantastic outlines for a rework of the class here and elsewhere. Like... if your in-house people suck, just fucking copy the homework your dedicated players are doing for you and then tweak it here and there to fit what the game requires it to be. I'd be amazed if NA/EU is the only place that's produced high quality "class rework" concepts, though.

Shhh! this is what the UI Team is doing already! but also ban first and copy the homework later