Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Packetdancer]

The problem with having a damage meter is that is doesn't provide any of the information you're looking for. It will not tell you if DoTs are falling off or if you're missing your oGCDs or what, it will only tell you DPS. The parsing tools that people are using now tell you all of that. What you want is an actual analysis of your performance not a DPS meter.

Sure, I agree entirely. Which is why I specified that I think it needs more than just a meter:

I mean, the main reason I would be in favor of adding a personal meter and analysis tool is for the sake of console players.

(Bolding added to quote for emphasis.)

I actually wrote up an example of a basic design for this system ages ago for a different thread on the topic, if you want an idea of what I mean by 'analysis tool' rather than just a DPS meter.

[VelKallor]

Unfortunately, while the utility of a parser is immense, there is some truth to this statement;in a toxic manner.

Stopped reading right there.

"Some" truth? SOME?

Oh yeah Ive heard this before "Ive never seen it so you are making it all up"

"Its all the voices in your head"

When you go back in to that document to state categorically that parsers ENABLE and ENCOURAGE toxic and abusive behaviour , then Ill take you seriously.

Until then, no.

As you seem to want to dismiss or handwave the OVERWHELMING PROOF of how a parser culture can AND DOES poison a gaming community, credibility: zero.

. And by virtue of being a private system—but one that does measure relative performance—it would still not promote toxicity.

..leading to:

"Post parser screenshots of all your runs or no invite"

He could mention that through the Echo he sees that a WHM hasn't been using Asylum

Theres a very good reason a WHM doesnt use Asylum in Hall of the Novice..it doesnt come till level 52..

In Hall of the Novice you are a Conjuror, not a White Mage as you dont get the jobstone til level 30, Asylum is 22 levels after that. If the NPC is telling you you arent using a spell you dont have yet on a class that doesnt even have the jobstone yet , the player aint the problem here.

Hall of Novice :Level 15 -> Jobstone:Locked to MSQ level 30 "Sylph Management" -> Asylum: level 52

...you didnt know?

There could—and should—also be generic 'performance trials' for the different roles. Healer trials where the NPC companions cannot DPS down a target fast enough within the time limit, and the healer needs to both heal those companions and do damage. Tanking trials where one has to pull multiple packs of mobs and hold aggro (or the NPC companions are defeated) while mitigating (or you are defeated). Etc.

Ahhh yes this is modeled on WOWs failed and utterly reviled Proving Grounds, a recycled, pathetically overtuned and imbalanced "test of ability" requiring players to use abilities they no longer had after Blizzard got out their chainsaw..one of them called for us to use Rain of Fire in an instance that hadnt been recoded to match the dps of a spell that had been NERFED by 50% because of repeated pvp whining.

One of the videos I took was of me failing the tank role with the NPC yelling "get these adds off me"..only there werent any adds, they were all dead. .

Oops.

So you want

Mandatory Hall of the Novice.

Mandatory job assessments.

Mandatory "perfomance exams" that a player has to sit REPEATEDLY through the game. Gotta tell ya pal, this sounds more like a job than a game, and if it is a job my pay starts at $80,000 AUD per year, paid fortnightly in advance, 4 weeks annual leave ( paid ), ten sick days a year (paid), all public holidays and weekends off.

FF 14 will get an instant reputation as an MMO that requires its players to "sit mandatory tests of competency" to be allowed to play

Great idea.

NOT.

[LianaThorne]

snip

Just gonna say a few things:

1. Parsers aren't evil, they're literally just numbers. It's *some* people that choose to use them in a toxic manner that's the issue. I think that needs to be made plain.

2. Piggybacking off of the above, you're making an assumption that it's going to encourage a new culture where everyone just is like: "gib logs or feck off", which is so far from the truth because most groups do not care about your logs or your parse unless you're going into a hardcore static. I have offered my logs multiple times to groups I've joined over the years and have had them declined and said they weren't needed. Only once were they ever asked for and that was for a group trying to push for world first.

We literally have parsers now and it isn't the culture to demand logs on every piece of content outside of *hardcore* static groups. If you don't want to show logs then go join a random PF or a casual static...hell even midcore.

3. People *should* be able to play their classes and know how they work. That's not saying they need to 99 parse everything without failure...I'm talking about showing basic competency with their skills. That is a much larger issue at hand compared to parsers because you literally have people doing content without having all of their skills and making lives harder for everyone else involved. Having an "exam" of sorts would help keep people on track in the game and at least make sure that they're unlocking everything they need to and show a basic understanding of how the skill works.

I fail to see how smacking a mob around for five minutes to show you know how X skill works equates to a job.

[Saraide]

..leading to:

"Post parser screenshots of all your runs or no invite"

Didnt know you need an invite to use DF. Also didnt know that introducing an ingame parser suddenly removes all ToS against harassment.

That being said, in PF this would be absolutely valid. It can even be done now so this nightmare scenario you are talking about is already in practice. In reality it's just not a nightmare scenario because most PFers do not care. It would be valid because PF hosts have complete control over their parties and can recruit according to whatever criterium they like (how fast they get a party to fill is strictly their own problem, no one else's). Luckily everyone can host their own PFs.

[LianaThorne]

Didnt know you need an invite to use DF. Also didnt know that introducing an ingame parser suddenly removes all ToS against harassment.

That being said, in PF this would be absolutely valid. It can even be done now so this nightmare scenario you are talking about is already in practice. In reality it's just not a nightmare scenario because most PFers do not care. It would be valid because PF hosts have complete control over their parties and can recruit according to whatever criterium they like (how fast they get a party to fill is strictly their own problem, no one else's). Luckily everyone can host their own PFs.

If there's already a PF culture in practice of demanding logs for all content, then please let me know where this exists so I can go see it for myself. Either I've been under a rock and choosing my PFs over the last two years carefully or....

Am genuinely curious though, not trying to be funny.

[Saraide]

If there's already a PF culture in practice of demanding logs for all content, then please let me know where this exists so I can go see it for myself. Either I've been under a rock and choosing my PFs over the last two years carefully or....

Am genuinely curious though, not trying to be funny.

It's just not happening. It's possible, it's just not happening. Because most people dont care. Which is why this nightmare scenario is not grounded in reality whatsoever.

[LianaThorne]

It's just not happening. It's possible, it's just not happening. Because most people dont care. Which is why this nightmare scenario is not grounded in reality whatsoever.

Mhm. If it was going to it would already happen with how open people are about mod usage now. It's actually kind of wild to see that shift happen ngl. When I joined it was like the end of the world if someone spoke about a mod or plugin and now it's becoming casual conversation topics. XD

Sorry if i phrased my other post harshly, 6 AM and still need coffeeeee

[FireMage]

no need. they added a DPS parse meter to the 2nd boss of the new dungeon.

They didn't actually

[SaitoHikari]

If there's already a PF culture in practice of demanding logs for all content, then please let me know where this exists so I can go see it for myself. Either I've been under a rock and choosing my PFs over the last two years carefully or....

Am genuinely curious though, not trying to be funny.

I’ve played since early Heavensward, though I took a nearly three year break mid-ShB that I just recently returned from about 2 weeks ago. I didn’t actually begin raiding until late HW though, after slowly getting over my anxiety in regards to higher end group content. I think what happened with me is that I really, really loved HW Bard, and wanted to master it to the point where I wanted to show off my skills with the class and help out in general. Of course I’d fall flat on my face a few times, but that’s life. Everyone’s been there.

ANYWAY out of all that time, I only ever saw one PF demanding parse logs to join. This was a Baykko EX party about a week after release.

The leader was a dark knight, and he wanted people with 90+ parses. I scored 100 historical on the second day. Didn’t care much for the worshipping he did after he saw my record, it was just his was the only party up at that time of day (I don’t think cross world PF existed yet, not totally sure). I told him to ditch the requirement because we’d be waiting for hours otherwise.

The party filled up, with some people not having cleared yet but had seen enrage. Party lead complained for a bit, but I consider that ready to clear material.

Guess what? The Dark Knight asking for logs was just looking for a carry. He kept screwing up tankswap right at the beginning, resulting in myself repeatedly eating tank buster as a Bard. If I used my aggro cutting skills, it was the Black Mage eating them instead. After five pulls of us not even getting to 70% before wiping, people rightfully started getting frustrated and leaving. I left too, quickly formed my own party, and made it clear in PF that I was trying to pick up everyone else that left. About four members of the original party joined.

With 5 members not having cleared yet, we defeated the boss first pull, and farmed like 8 runs after that until everyone got the weapon they needed. What started out as a pretty bad experience turned rather pleasant in the end. Incidentally, that’s the only time I ever led a PF for high end content. I still have some anxiety in regards to running high end content on my own without a static (which is why I don’t plan on raiding again until next tier at the earliest), and it would take something really drastic to get me to lead one.

Point being these nightmare scenarios if people demanding logs for PF doesn’t really happen at all, and in the exceptionally rare cases that it does, it’s a big warning sign to actually skilled raiders that they’re probably someone really toxic looking for a carry.

[tinythinker]

since this is all just a dream, lets go chaotic. How about introduce negative commendations so that we can shame on bad play; with players whom acquired enough of them being temporarily barred from group content~!

This already happens in my head. I play (what I perceive to be or actually) poorly, give myself negative comments, feel shame, and avoid group content. Would be wild to see it actually happen in-game as a system.