Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I did, but it’s not true. ANY fight becomes harder with poor dps. We just only care when the content is difficult enough that we might wipe to it.

Not really, I speak from personal experience. The hardest part in any savage fight is learning the dance as well as making sure everyone else is more or less coordinated to do the fight with minimal to no deaths. Damage is then taken into consideration when applying that factor and 9 times out of 10 my static manages to clear the fights easily enough due to doing mechanics alone.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Why? Why in your right mind would you want less people to play your game? As a company with shareholders that makes little sense irregardless of your toxic remarks. Thank the twelve I don't play on a data center with a person such as you.

Just ignore FireMage, hes a notorious try hard troll in the forums.

[VerdeLuck]

Yoshida is never putting offiical parsers into the game and that isn't something that's up for debate, debating it is useless.
We all know that even with current 3rd party damage meters like ACT, there exist places like reddit where people use damage meters in casual content and try to name and shame people for doing subpar dps or not doing things optimally in content where it doesn't matter.
We all know that were that to be put into the game, those people would start speaking up and saying those things in chat directly to that person to harass them.

It's very easy to say "well we would just ban toxicity", but then the arguments would shift over to "well, damage meters are a feature of the game, so I shouldn't be punished for pointing out what's on them". Then, the whole argument has shifted past it not being ok to parse random casual players in casual content to whether it's ok to yell at timmy who's doing Crystal Tower the first time because he's using a suboptimal level 50 rotation and increasing your clear time by 30 seconds.
This debate has been had so many times and it's always the same people asking for it. The funny thing is this time the people asking for meters aren't even hiding why they want it. It's not that they use damage meters, parses, or analysis sites to better themselves, it's to "expose bads" and use the numbers as a weapon to beat other players over the head with. They think by holding up a parse at another player like it's garlic and other players are a vampire, they're going to drive away anyone who would drag down their parties or force them to be good at the game.
We know that's the goal, Yoshida knows it, SE knows it, and that's why it's useless to argue. We're not getting damage meters because we all know what you're doing with them the first time they get added to the game.

[FireMage]

Not really, I speak from personal experience. The hardest part in any savage fight is learning the dance as well as making sure everyone else is more or less coordinated to do the fight with minimal to no deaths. Damage is then taken into consideration when applying that factor and 9 times out of 10 my static manages to clear the fights easily enough due to doing mechanics alone.

Yes, because you have DPS hard carrying you

Why? Why in your right mind would you want less people to play your game? As a company with shareholders that makes little sense irregardless of your toxic remarks. Thank the twelve I don't play on a data center with a person such as you.

Because if certain people (hanger ons, dead weight, casuls, etc) left the community would improve drastically. It's objectively better to cater to quality than quantity

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Honestly, if there's any reason I can think of to -not- agree adding in-game damage meter is because majority of players are very unlikely to interpret the information given properly. Some people already couldn't comprehend how the in-game enmity order list work in general, how are we going to expect people to have a damage meter and make a good judgment out of it?

I prefer the current status quo.

Why? Why in your right mind would you want less people to play your game? As a company with shareholders that makes little sense irregardless of your toxic remarks. Thank the twelve I don't play on a data center with a person such as you.

Don't fuel the troll.

[Ardeth]

Sorry I didn't know... But to kinda bolster my point it's not like I'm promoting being a dead wieght in groups. I just don't see any vaule in dps meters outside of bleeding edge content. Anymore than that it just becomes toxic fuel to ruin people's experiences. Maybe Johnny doesn't know x ability does more damage than y, but I can tell you he won't if you just kick him.

[moroarda]

It isnt just him, I dont know how many times this has to be said.

THE ENTIRE TEAM doesnt want it. The game is designed to not need them. It has been said over, and over, and over again, I dont see how or why people cant take NO for an answer.

Once you've cleared an Ultimate entirely blind with no third party tools of any sort I'll take your opinion on how the game is designed to not need parsers seriously. Until then this is just screeching into the void to me.

Because if certain people (hanger ons, dead weight, casuls, etc) left the community would improve drastically. It's objectively better to cater to quality than quantity

While I feel this sentiment deeply I don't think it works from a business perspective.

The same reasons that keep SE from coming down too hard on third party tool usage are the ones that keep them from allowing their use openly - this system let's them retain the subs of the raiding community and protect the delicate feelings of the bads.

More subs = more money.

Yoshida is never putting offiical parsers into the game and that isn't something that's up for debate, debating it is useless.
We all know that even with current 3rd party damage meters like ACT, there exist places like reddit where people use damage meters in casual content and try to name and shame people for doing subpar dps or not doing things optimally in content where it doesn't matter.
We all know that were that to be put into the game, those people would start speaking up and saying those things in chat directly to that person to harass them.

It's very easy to say "well we would just ban toxicity", but then the arguments would shift over to "well, damage meters are a feature of the game, so I shouldn't be punished for pointing out what's on them". Then, the whole argument has shifted past it not being ok to parse random casual players in casual content to whether it's ok to yell at timmy who's doing Crystal Tower the first time because he's using a suboptimal level 50 rotation and increasing your clear time by 30 seconds.
This debate has been had so many times and it's always the same people asking for it. The funny thing is this time the people asking for meters aren't even hiding why they want it. It's not that they use damage meters, parses, or analysis sites to better themselves, it's to "expose bads" and use the numbers as a weapon to beat other players over the head with. They think by holding up a parse at another player like it's garlic and other players are a vampire, they're going to drive away anyone who would drag down their parties or force them to be good at the game.
We know that's the goal, Yoshida knows it, SE knows it, and that's why it's useless to argue. We're not getting damage meters because we all know what you're doing with them the first time they get added to the game.

How do you think this?

What part of having a damage meter in the game magically alters the terms of service to suddenly allow for degradation and harassment?

Please explain, because I don't understand this common but gigantic leap in logic.

Also, as to the end bit, this is already a thing. It's common practice amongst good players with limited time to exclude people from PFs based on logs. Again, nothing would change here.

[Conadrium]

Ok so heres what I dont get. If we already have people parse and use FFlogs anyway, what in the hells are we debating about? Are we seriously just trying to push this for the people that dont want it?

And dont say its for the people that want it, they already would have installed the add-on anyway.

PS5 players can’t.

[Bobby66]

This is slightly off topic, I see a bunch of people throwing out the word toxic, and for the life of me I cannot figure out why anyone would let the words of some random on the internet phase them. I am called bad, shitter, scum, asshole, sperg, retard, troll, intolerable and a plethora of other names and things in other games and sometimes in this game. Thing is who cares what a random on the internet thinks of me, as my therapist likes to say the thoughts of others only matter if you choose to let them matter.

I am sorry just seems weird to pay so much attention to the potential harm of a tool, because people will misuse the tool. Who really cares if people misuse the tool, would having someone point out your numbers and berate you really be the worst thing. I laugh when I get called out for playing like shit in games like OW2, I am like yeah I know, I am trying just having an off day today.

Sorry about my mini rant.

[Atelier-Bagur]

PS5 players can’t.

Nor are they expected to have to use damage meters. Anybody seriously advocating for there usage (in an environment where addons are ahem...downloadable) they would most likely play the PC version if they want to take raiding seriously somehow. Its also not as if this game needs a high end pc to run either.