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Thread: Rework sage

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  1. #1
    Player
    ty_taurus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    3,647
    Character
    Noah Orih
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    In Final Fantasy's history, it doesn't surprise me that sage was a job that ultimately didn't stick and was pruned out of the series' future works. It failed at establishing any sort of strong identity for itself unlike other mages because its only identity was being an amalgamation of all the rest. This is also problematic from a design standpoint as it effectively invalidates every other magic job in the game. Why carry only summoning magic when you can just carry every type of magic? Sage's limitations were at best a slap on the wrist by comparison to the shear power and versatility it provides on a 4-man party.

    While there is something to be said about FFXIV's SGE not needing to use the title of a former job, I also can't be bothered by that either because the job that was lost was based on repetitive identity already. I would really hate to see the techno mage aesthetic get thrown in the garbage in exchange for a garage sale of animations stolen from BLM, SMN, and WHM.

    That said, I'm also quite frustrated with how the SGE we do have only looks impressive and exciting, but it's gameplay utterly fails at delivering upon the new identity that it was marketed as. It doesn't feel like a combat healer any more than the other three healers do. It has the same DPS loop, Kardia offers no actual interactions or engagement, and most of its healing tools are just cut-and-paste copies taken from SCH.

    I would like to see SGE get a mild rework to actually bring it in line with what the job was explained to be: an offensive healer who excels at high personal damage. SGE should be the healer that feels like a DPS in the same way that GNB is the tank that feels like a DPS. It should be somewhat complex and have elements that are difficult to optimize. It's explained as being one of the most challenging disciplines of magic to learn, yet is one of the easiest jobs in the game. I want it to have a legitimate caster rotation that can get in the way of your healing if you aren't careful in the same way that GNB can struggle with boss positioning while it's going through its burst. I want the other healers to each maintain some form of valuable utility like SCH's combat sprint and better raise potential--things that feel like equal trade-offs with raw damage--while SGE gets none of that and is simply the BLM of healers whose selfish DPS is several steps above the other healers.

    Ironically, this would also potentially capture some of the original sage spirit, as having a high damage output is reflective of BLM, and is a healer like WHM.
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player
    Semirhage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,704
    Character
    Nemene Damendar
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ty_taurus View Post
    is simply the BLM of healers whose selfish DPS is several steps above the other healers.
    Which is further insult to injury for WHM, whose identity is now "zero utility, but is still outdamaged by the other zero-utility healer, because lol get rek'd WHM your only identity is mediocrity".
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    ty_taurus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    3,647
    Character
    Noah Orih
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
    Which is further insult to injury for WHM, whose identity is now "zero utility, but is still outdamaged by the other zero-utility healer, because lol get rek'd WHM your only identity is mediocrity".
    WHM is meant to be a part of that "the other healers who have utility worth the exchange of offense." I've said many many times the entire healing role needs an overhaul which does include WHM. I only bring up SGE here because it's a SGE conversation.

    I just don't feel like I need to explain the nuance of every change I want to see for every healer every time.

    EDIT: To expand on this, I've mentioned before that I like the idea of WHM having the ability to instant cast multiple raises back-to-back at reduced MP costs, which is quite a handy form of utility. My raid group would certainly appreciate having that and we do have a WHM, for example. Yes it's very prog-focused utility, but most players are not speed clearers. Even having cleared P7S multiple times, our group still fucks up Famine's Harvest from time-to-time, where being able to get 2-4 people up really fast would save the need of healer LB3.

    I also think, seeing as Determination has been buffed recently, that WHM could appreciate a party Det buff. It may not be as powerful as flat damage or crit, but WHM can stay ahead of AST and SCH in personal damage, gain some offensive support with a Det buff, and Det also increases healing output slightly which falls in line with WHM's identity as a nifty bonus.

    If debuffs ever actually become a thing that happens, I think a party esuna cooldown fits WHM better than with SCH, and SCH's Expedient is already such a powerful piece of utility. That of course means esuna needs to be something that is helpful.
    (0)
    Last edited by ty_taurus; 12-15-2022 at 05:13 AM.

  4. #4
    Player Mithron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    699
    Character
    Mithron Scarlet
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
    Which is further insult to injury for WHM, whose identity is now "zero utility, but is still outdamaged by the other zero-utility healer, because lol get rek'd WHM your only identity is mediocrity".
    WHM's identity has always been baby ez mode healer for those who don't want to play real, better, serious healer jobs :^)

    /endFireMageGag
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    Allegor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    2,056
    Character
    Red Rider
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithron View Post
    WHM's identity has always been baby ez mode healer for those who don't want to play but still get rewarded :^)
    FTFY
    /10 char
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Allegor View Post
    Can't increase healing requirements because "it'd stress the newbies"
    Can't increase dps options either because "it'd stress the newbies"
    so apparently the only option that doesn't "stress the newbies" is either pressing 1211111111, or do nothing at all.