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  1. #1
    Player
    quidama's Avatar
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    S'uira Tia
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    Siren
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    Dancer Lv 100

    Grammatical Error: Culinarian Levequest

    NPC involved: Grigge (Old Sharlayan X:12.2, Y:13.4)
    Class: Culinarian
    Level: 86

    One of the two Culinarian leves for level 86 is called "An Historical Flavor". I believe this should be "A Historical Flavor" instead as there is no apparent wordplay implied in the leve description or elsewhere. It seems to also not be a reference to anything but I would be interested to see what the community thinks about it.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    MistakeNot's Avatar
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    Auriana Redsteele
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    Zodiark
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    Paladin Lv 83
    Quote Originally Posted by quidama View Post
    NPC involved: Grigge (Old Sharlayan X:12.2, Y:13.4)
    Class: Culinarian
    Level: 86

    One of the two Culinarian leves for level 86 is called "An Historical Flavor". I believe this should be "A Historical Flavor" instead as there is no apparent wordplay implied in the leve description or elsewhere. It seems to also not be a reference to anything but I would be interested to see what the community thinks about it.
    It is not obvious which is correct, since it depends on how you pronounce "historical", which can and does vary between different variants of English.
    If the "h" is silent, then "an" is correct, but if the "h" is pronounced than it should be "a"
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
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    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
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    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by MistakeNot View Post
    If the "h" is silent, then "an" is correct, but if the "h" is pronounced than it should be "a"
    In linguistics, the /h/ sound is usually called the "glottal fricative", and fricatives are consonants. However, it's actually an approximant, which is somewhere between a fricative and a vowel. Because of this, some dialects of English treat it as a vowel when deciding whether to precede it with "a" or "an", even if you do pronounce it as an /h/. This is particularly noticeable among theatre actors, many of whom have been trained to make the dialectic choice to use "an historic(al)" rather than "a historic(al)", especially when playing a character who is meant to sound important, educated, or old fashioned--and this game often tries to sound like at least one of those things. If you see "an historic(al)" anywhere in the game, it is probably not a mistake.
    (4)
    Last edited by Rongway; 12-13-2022 at 02:40 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    Bismarck
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    Summoner Lv 90
    Along the same lines, you can get "an" heirloom gear piece from Matoya's Relict.

    I assume they're consistent about it across everything.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
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    Cyrillo Rongway
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    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    Along the same lines, you can get "an" heirloom gear piece from Matoya's Relict.

    I assume they're consistent about it across everything.
    "An heirloom" is different because the "h" in "heirloom" is silent. One only pronounces it hair-loom if they are not familiar with the English word or if they are purposely trying to be funny. In the case of "heirloom" the initial sound is obviously a vowel, and so of course it takes "an" rather than "a". The issue in question in this thread is whether words that begin with a non-silent /h/ sound should use "a" or "an"; and in some dialects, presumably a subset of dialects that includes the one the localization team is aiming for, a word that begins with a non-silent /h/ sound takes "an".
    (2)
    Last edited by Rongway; 12-13-2022 at 03:59 PM.
    Error 3102 Club, Order of the 52nd Hour

  6. #6
    Player
    quidama's Avatar
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    S'uira Tia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    In linguistics, the /h/ sound is usually called the "glottal fricative", and fricatives are consonants. However, it's actually an approximant, which is somewhere between a fricative and a vowel. Because of this, some dialects of English treat it as a vowel when deciding whether to precede it with "a" or "an", even if you do pronounce it as an /h/. This is particularly noticeable among theatre actors, many of whom have been trained to make the dialectic choice to use "an historic(al)" rather than "a historic(al)", especially when playing a character who is meant to sound important, educated, or old fashioned--and this game often tries to sound like at least one of those things. If you see "an historic(al)" anywhere in the game, it is probably not a mistake.
    That makes sense. I wasn't aware that there was an argument to be made for preceding a non-silent h with 'an' before but this clears things up a bit. Thank you!
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    DPZ2's Avatar
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    Dal S'ta
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    Gilgamesh
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    Bard Lv 97
    It is an honor to come across so many elite linguists. Not everyone can discern what may be an honest mistake. This is a universal truth.

    Words are funny things. Both "an historical" and "a historical" were considered correct up until the start of World War II (1939 or 1941 depending on the country where you live). After that, "a historical" tended to see more use. Both are still considered correct.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    Shibi's Avatar
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    Lala Felon
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    Zurvan
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    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    "An heirloom" is different because the "h" in "heirloom" is silent. One only pronounces it hair-loom if they are not familiar with the English word or if they are purposely trying to be funny. In the case of "heirloom" the initial sound is obviously a vowel, and so of course it takes "an" rather than "a". The issue in question in this thread is whether words that begin with a non-silent /h/ sound should use "a" or "an"; and in some dialects, presumably a subset of dialects that includes the one the localization team is aiming for, a word that begins with a non-silent /h/ sound takes "an".
    Now I am genuinely curious, Rongway, as the USA tends to say 'erb rather than the h voiced form the rest of us use.

    Would an American say "Rosemary is an herb"? We most certainly say "Rosemary is a herb" here.
    (2)
    Last edited by Shibi; 12-19-2022 at 06:41 PM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
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    Cyrillo Rongway
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    Hyperion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shibi View Post
    Would an American say "Rosemary is an herb"? We most certainly say "Rosemary is a herb" here.
    A typical American would say "an'erb" rather than "a Herb", though I know a few people who do say "a Herb". For what it's worth, they happen to intersect heavily with the people who pronounce wh- words with a hw- ("Hwere are you going?")
    (4)
    Error 3102 Club, Order of the 52nd Hour

  10. #10
    Player
    Shibi's Avatar
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    Lala Felon
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    Thank you Rongway Your answers and reasoned thoughts are always informative.
    (1)
    やはり、お前は……笑顔が……イイ