SCH is a mess, thematically and visually, and needs streamlining

[Deceptus]

So the solution is, if I understand this right, not 'remove ED so Aetherflow heals don't feel like they're competing vs damage', it's 'rework Aetherflow heals to use Fairy Gauge so that Aetherflow is ONLY spent on ED'? How is using AF then 3 ED's different from using a reworked ED that does 300p, once per min, to give you the Aetherflow stacks? They'd fulfill the same function and do the same damage. I'm not sure why we should keep designs that are clearly past their use-by date when we could replace them with fresh new design for optimization in a different way. Of course, losing it and having it replaced with nothing is not good, but I'm going to (perhaps foolishly) look at this from the point of view that SE will replace stuff with other stuff, not just remove it outright ala Kaiten. Like Fairy gauge is pretty pointless feeling atm yes, but so was Salted Earth in SHB, and in EW it honestly should have been removed. Instead they tied a 500p hit to it to keep it on life support.

There are plenty of different ways that SCH could have other 'optimizations'. We don't see PLD having an offensive Oath spender (and Shield Swipe was removed for the same reason), or WAR having a defensive for Wrath, because if there's a choice between 'not-damage' and 'damage', people choose damage, sometimes to the point of causing a wipe, and blaming others for not picking up the slack. We all remember DRKs being squishy in SB because they refused to use TBN cos 'dps loss', we've probably seen a barsing SCH or WHM in SHB who cause a wipe by not using Lily heals/Soil expecting their cohealer to pick up the slack, etc. At this point I expect SE will just be spiteful and make ED do 10 potency, so that even if someone DOES decide to dump all their 'flows on it, they're going to get like 240 potency total gain, and then crit variance means their gained damage is potentially outplayed by someone who just got lucky.

And that shielding is only 'unnecessary' if it doesn't save you a GCD. Which in prog, it probably would, and I think it'd be nice to be able to apply a shield, as the 'shield healer', that isn't a GCD, for the purpose of Deployment Tactics, especially if it can interact with Recitation or Protraction. The only OGCD option to shield atm is Consolation.

Hell every Broil / Bio / Ruin / Art of War cast could increase the fairy gauge by 5 points or something.

[ForsakenRoe]

Hell every Broil / Bio / Ruin / Art of War cast could increase the fairy gauge by 5 points or something.

nah can't have that, that'd be one step away from forcing people to do damage as a healer and we know we can't have that /s

if we go with what Taurus said, converting the Aetherflow heals into Fey gauge spenders, theoretically we could change Aetherflow into a different max count, or even into a 0-100 gauge for more granularity. Atm it's 3, for SMN it's 2, so different maximums are apparently possible. lets imagine we make it a 0-100 gauge. having 'previously AF heals' now on a 0-100 gauge also gives some leeway in changing their cost based on their strength. Fey Blessing and Indom are, functionally, identical, but one comes from the SCH and one from the Fairy, thus they could have the same Fey gauge cost. But Soil is vastly better than either (being as it heals twice as much via it's regen, and also has %mit) so it could have a different price. EG Blessing/Indom are 20, Soil 30, Lustrate 10, Excog 15, Union 5 per tick, etc. then we can have a direct conversion, without having the issue of 'well, indom is 20, soil is 30, but both generate one aetherflow so indom is better for damage'.

so once we convert fey gauge into aetherflow, we'd be able to have tools to spend it, with various CDs. ED would presumably be the 'dump' skill, so i think it'd be good if it had a cost of 'all of your aetherflow', scaling in damage based on how much is consumed. or just 10 per use so you dont misclick and waste it all works too. then there could also be stuff like, idk, 30s CD Shadowflare which costs 30 to place, bring back Bane for 20 to spread DOTs (maybe with upfront damage to keep it as a better option than ED), etc. not sure what should generate should generate Fey gauge to start all of this off though, probably not something uptime reliant like attacking, else you'd be forced into using crappy Succor during something like High Concept. 'Fairy actions' could work, since Embrace is pretty low healing it'd almost always be firing off, making it the healing equivalent of 'PLD gets gauge by autoattacking', while still being able to generate even during downtime like HC2. It'd also incentivise the idea of 'use your fairy skills first preferably', but if people are full HP then it won't work. Unless they changed Embrace to always cast, with 'target of target' (aka the maintank) being chosen if everyone is full HP, to keep it precasting in case the MT takes an autoattack and to keep generating gauge

the problem is, a design like that would still force you to spend 'healing resource' on Lustrate to get the 'damage resource' (which feels bad). The alternative is that the two systems are separate, which also feels bad because it just continues to demonstrate that the damage and healing halves of the kit are distinctly seperate from each other instead of a cohesive whole. like slicing an orange and a lemon in half, and mixmatching the halves from the two together. 'theyre both citrus fruits so what does it matter' say the devs. I wonder how much SMN has had an effect on all of this, the EW rework should have been the time to seperate the two once and for all. Make SMN a job unlocked in ARR by getting any class to 30, and change ACN to a second healer choice on the main menu so people have options when they want to start a character and be a healer, instead of instantly railroading them into CNJ by default. Seems pretty obvious to me that ACN's evolution into SCH is the lore-apt one, and SMN is the side thing, rather than the other way round, especially since the SCH job trainer is in the same city the ACN guild is in. By having SMN be it's own standalone thing, the shared concepts between the two jobs wouldn't have to be shared, like getting Aetherflow as an ACN only to lose it becoming a SCH only to get it again at 45 because it's used for Lustrate. Just remove it from SMN entirely, make Fester and Painflare be shared 2 charges, 30s CD it's not rocket science but hey i'm not a rocket scientist so maybe it is way harder than it looks to me

[ty_taurus]

How I constructed the Aetherflow vs Fey Gauge mechanics, simply put, looks roughly like this:

- ACN's Aethercharge becomes Aetherflow on SCH: a GCD button that generates 1 Aetherflow and 20 Fey Gauge. It also has charges.
- Aetherflow stacks enables 1 use of Libra, an OGCD tool that converts your DPS spells into different spells.
- Miasma spells are returned to SCH as a 2nd GCD DoT with a hardcast and last 24 seconds. Under Libra, Bio spells transform into Pain, a 3rd DoT to manage which lasts 45 seconds.
- Ruin/Broil spells become Fester. In the doc, I listed Broil as being 260 potency while Fester is 500, increasing by 40 for each of the 3 DoTs on your target.
This is the basic Aetherflow gameplay loop, though there's a bit more in the doc.

Meanwhile, Fey Gauge enables two GCD spells that change based on your current Faerie.
- With Eos summoned, you can cast Protraction or Indomitability. These are spells you cast by pulling aether from your faerie. Both cost 20 fey gauge and grant 1 Aetherflow. Protraction can be spread to other party members through Deployment Tactics.
- With Selene summoned, you get Retaliation and Expedient. Same deal as above on the fey gauge cost and Aetherflow generation. Retaliation is similar to Eye for an Eye--taking physical damage reflects a physical damage down on the attacker while taking magical damage reflects a magical damage down onto the attacker. This can also be spread through Deployment Tactics. Expedient is just the sprint.

You can store up to 100 Fey Gauge so there's little concern about overcapping. Shadowflare also generates Aetherflow when used, which it has a cooldown, and Recitation causes your GCD heals to generate 1 Aetherflow as well.

[Wasselin]

This happens with White Mage too, which does have a "holy" theme but also an elemental/natural theme as well. Most of the older jobs are kind of inconsistent as things have been added and taken away over time, kind of diffusing the original identity.

It's not necessarily bad though, it gives it more flavor and nuance than the newer jobs like Sage. Maybe one day Scholar will get a rework like Summoner and it will all become more coherent again-- until the next expansion adds a few new skills with a different flavor.

[RyuDragnier]

How I constructed the Aetherflow vs Fey Gauge mechanics, simply put, looks roughly like this:

- ACN's Aethercharge becomes Aetherflow on SCH: a GCD button that generates 1 Aetherflow and 20 Fey Gauge. It also has charges.
- Aetherflow stacks enables 1 use of Libra, an OGCD tool that converts your DPS spells into different spells.
- Miasma spells are returned to SCH as a 2nd GCD DoT with a hardcast and last 24 seconds. Under Libra, Bio spells transform into Pain, a 3rd DoT to manage which lasts 45 seconds.
- Ruin/Broil spells become Fester. In the doc, I listed Broil as being 260 potency while Fester is 500, increasing by 40 for each of the 3 DoTs on your target.
This is the basic Aetherflow gameplay loop, though there's a bit more in the doc.

Meanwhile, Fey Gauge enables two GCD spells that change based on your current Faerie.
- With Eos summoned, you can cast Protraction or Indomitability. These are spells you cast by pulling aether from your faerie. Both cost 20 fey gauge and grant 1 Aetherflow. Protraction can be spread to other party members through Deployment Tactics.
- With Selene summoned, you get Retaliation and Expedient. Same deal as above on the fey gauge cost and Aetherflow generation. Retaliation is similar to Eye for an Eye--taking physical damage reflects a physical damage down on the attacker while taking magical damage reflects a magical damage down onto the attacker. This can also be spread through Deployment Tactics. Expedient is just the sprint.

You can store up to 100 Fey Gauge so there's little concern about overcapping. Shadowflare also generates Aetherflow when used, which it has a cooldown, and Recitation causes your GCD heals to generate 1 Aetherflow as well.

As good as that sounds, it's likely going to be shot down by the devs since they're trying to simplify healers. Btw I do like several of your ideas on how to work with Fae Gauge and AF, but I think we may need to cut the middle man out here and make things flow a bit better.

AF is removed, and ED becomes a 2 charge oGCD attack.
ED generates 20 Fey Gauge and gives the SCH 1000 MP. This keeps the "do damage" mentality, but also makes it a tactical decision. Make Dissipation drop 50 gauge but buff all of SCH's healing (gauge heals included), Fey Union a small healing pulse from both the SCH and fairy (while still locking out Embrace and draining gauge), and make it so the gauge goes up by 2 for every Embrace and by 20 for each Fairy ability (Fey Illumination, Whispering Dawn, Fey Blessing).

Overall that would help synergy within the job, fit SE's silly "heal centered" mindset, and gives them a base for things they can add for SCH in the future since SCH's abilities will actually synergize.

[Succor]

isn't it annoying SMN job stone is green while SCH is blue.

Yes, absolutely! I know green has been associated with SMN in past games, but it's so annoying, nothing about SCH is blue, skills are either green/red or other random colours. Adding that to the list.

Also, guys, I appreciate that the thread is getting attention, but can you please not highjack it to discuss ED and other skill reworks for SCH? We already have a thousand threads on ED, here I was only pointing out the lore and aesthetic inconsistencies of the class.

[ty_taurus]

Yes, absolutely! I know green has been associated with SMN in past games, but it's so annoying, nothing about SCH is blue, skills are either green/red or other random colours. Adding that to the list.

Also, guys, I appreciate that the thread is getting attention, but can you please not highjack it to discuss ED and other skill reworks for SCH? We already have a thousand threads on ED, here I was only pointing out the lore and aesthetic inconsistencies of the class.

Broil and Biolysis have become blue though, as well as Chain Stratagem, and that's 95% of SCH right there.

[fulminating]

Perhaps nym being a maritime nation has something to do with it? Otherwise you may as well ask about the rationale behind half the other soul crystal colour schemes. What colour would you have chosen? Brown is generally avoided as an attention grabbing colour so that’s out.

Frankly a lot of the new jobs don’t have coherent identities, particularly when compared with the base game ones. Summoner and healers being gutted has done a huge amount of damage to the identity, but it’s still clearer than gunbreaker or sage.

[Raikai]

I'm fine with SCH's visual direction...

But I have to say that Seraph looks completely out of place. It came in an expansion that featured fairies, they had more thing to have inspiration for an 'advanced fairy form' rather than an angel.

In all honesty, I wish instead of a Seraph, we had both aspects of Lily being manifested at once... But I suppose the game doesn't support a pet job with more than one pet entity at once.

[Calysto]

I'm fine with SCH's visual direction...

But I have to say that Seraph looks completely out of place. It came in an expansion that featured fairies, they had more thing to have inspiration for an 'advanced fairy form' rather than an angel.

In all honesty, I wish instead of a Seraph, we had both aspects of Lily being manifested at once... But I suppose the game doesn't support a pet job with more than one pet entity at once.

Having 2 pet entities may not be possible, but what is possible is a "twin model" with both (like twin butterfly or nouliths)