RMTs are starting to bother me...

[NationOfZealots]

Please stop defending RMT botters, the citations have all been provided. SE has an obligation to get rid of them, my opinion on their reputability is still as low as it was when I came into the game because of this...yet people still defend them...I don't get it.

[Ingolf]

Roughly 99% of RMT distribution goes through IGE, Mogs, Lewt, or Ingame Dollar at some point, making all the "smaller companies" trivial at best, and mere subsidiaries of the big 4 at worst.
The point is, we don't want to see the trains of lalafell just standing around.
At the very least, its creepy.

96.5% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[LackingLadyLover]

Their customers will always try their best to defend them, as will those who benefit from their presence. The rest will see them for what they are, regardless of how "nice" they act.

[Ingolf]

Their customers will always try their best to defend them, as will those who benefit from their presence. The rest will see them for what they are, regardless of how "nice" they act.

This is a circumstantial ad hominem.

[LackingLadyLover]

So basically, you just admitted to being a customer or benefiting from their continued presence. Circumstantial ad hominems are only aimed at a specific target- in this case, customers and those who benefit from RMT. It was a fact. Not a logical fallacy aimed at you, as you just suggested.
Customers and those who benefit from a product want to keep that product on the market.

[Ingolf]

So basically, you just admitted to being a customer or benefiting from their continued presence. Circumstantial ad hominems are only aimed at a specific target- in this case, customers and those who benefit from RMT.

Yes. I benefit from their continued presence as I mentioned in my very first post:

I don't mind the RMT. Each one of those is another payment that SE really needs to support this game. It's not like they do anything harmful to other players.

Them allowing this game to get revenue benefits me. Also lets not get off topic here, you claiming that the only people who would defend them are people who are customers is a logical fallacy. You imply that you have to be benefiting from their presence to defend them at all, which is obviously incorrect.

[LackingLadyLover]

You're committing a logical fallacy by refusing to actually look at what RMT do to the game. They cause dozens of people to leave monthly, which outweighs any money they add into the game.
In addition, you have been "poisoning the well" since your second post by using unrelated information such as logical fallacies and such to detract from the conversation.

Fact- RMT cause people to leave every month.
Fact- RMT have developed botting and position-hacking programs for this game and use them.
Fact- RMT is illegal in the country in which the RMT farming is done.
Fact- RMT is against the TOS and EULA of FFXIV.
Fact- RMT detract from Immersion.
Fact- RMT farm billions of gil per week off levequests.

[Dragon]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...et-gaming-scam

TL;DR The article is about "Liu Dali" a 54-year-old who was a former prison guard who was jailed for three years in 2004 for "illegally petitioning" the central government about corruption in his hometown. By day he carved chopsticks and toothpicks out of planks of wood until his hands were raw and assembled car seat covers that the prison exported to South Korea and Japan. He was also made to memorize communist literature to pay off his debt to society and by night he was force to do gold farming, "If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things," he said.

How is this a legitimate business?

RMT is not some monolithic entity, sorry.

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Flori...c-6055217.aspx
West palm beach. Thats the type of place the CEOs of RMT companies live in.

http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualw...urrentPage=all
The owner and CEO of IGE made over a quarter billion a year...

Need I say more?

I know the CEO of one RMT business (Mogs), and I can say without a doubt that your accusations of that being how all RMT operation is wrong.

[Ingolf]

You're committing a logical fallacy by refusing to actually look at what RMT do to the game. They cause dozens of people to leave monthly, which outweighs any money they add into the game.
In addition, you have been "poisoning the well" since your second post by using unrelated information such as logical fallacies and such to detract from the conversation.

Fact- RMT cause people to leave every month.
Fact- RMT have developed botting and position-hacking programs for this game and use them.
Fact- RMT is illegal in the country in which the RMT farming is done.
Fact- RMT is against the TOS and EULA of FFXIV.
Fact- RMT detract from Immersion.
Fact- RMT farm billions of gil per week off levequests.

Proof please.

[TokyieRage]

You're committing a logical fallacy by refusing to actually look at what RMT do to the game. They cause dozens of people to leave monthly, which outweighs any money they add into the game.
In addition, you have been "poisoning the well" since your second post by using unrelated information such as logical fallacies and such to detract from the conversation.

Fact- RMT cause people to leave every month.
Fact- RMT have developed botting and position-hacking programs for this game and use them.
Fact- RMT is illegal in the country in which the RMT farming is done.
Fact- RMT is against the TOS and EULA of FFXIV.
Fact- RMT detract from Immersion.
Fact- RMT farm billions of gil per week off levequests.

Please provide a reference to your "facts", since you have been throwing "facts" to this entire thread without them.

And I for one have never heard a friend or LS member say "I'm quitting, this game has too many RMT"