RMTs are starting to bother me...

[MStowastiqVahlshdeh]

I doubt RMT would use stolen credit cards. It's a legitimate business. Using stolen credit cards would just get them in trouble seeing as the profit they make has to be claimed. Most of them are just people like you and me trying to make a few extra bucks.

In legal terms, there is no such thing as a "legitimate RMT" business that sells gil from FFXIV accounts because selling gil, accounts, leveling services etc for real money is against the legal parameters set in the user agreement that you agree to when buying the game and playing it or even opening an SE account.

Even if the RMT company has their own legal credit cards and pays for accounts with those cards, there is not a legal way to operate a company that sells any part of the in-game content in exchange for real money. I don't mean the legal kind of selling like buying the game from Gamestop or Steam, I am specifically talking about unlicensed distributors.

[Laraul]

In legal terms, there is no such thing as a "legitimate RMT" business that sells gil from FFXIV accounts because selling gil, accounts, leveling services etc for real money is against the legal parameters set in the user agreement that you agree to when buying the game and playing it or even opening an SE account.

Even if the RMT company has their own legal credit cards and pays for accounts with those cards, there is not a legal way to operate a company that sells any part of the in-game content in exchange for real money. I don't mean the legal kind of selling like buying the game from Gamestop or Steam, I am specifically talking about unlicensed distributors.

If it really we're illegal, then why doesn't SE actually take people involved in RMT to court or have them arrested? After all, according to you they have broken the law. I'm sure someone's gonna throw the "but they operate outside the countries where the law is enforceable" which is just a way of saying the software license has no weight in those countries. Regardless it's just a contract, and it's pretty clear that what is said in the Software License Agreement has little influence since it's basically not possible to enforce. There simply is no way to tell if someone is violating the agreement or not without violating their privacy (by that I mean spying on them).

BTW, just to clarify the licence agreement says you don't own your account or characters, and may not sell, rent, or reproduce them or any virtual assets. You agree they have no "monetary" value. And you agree to not use any of SE's services for commercial purposes. What is does NOT say is that I can not "give" my account, character or virtual assets away. And should I find $200 your bank account the next day it's clearly "unrelated" (or so you could claim).

So SE is able to only one thing. Try to ban accounts that they find are being devoted to RMT activities. But RMT aren't phased by bans. They'll have a new account within a matter of hours. And RMT are clever. If you try to cut off one source of their revenue they will just find another. And in the end, the players not RMT are impacted the most.

[Urthdigger]

If it really we're illegal, then why doesn't SE actually take people involved in RMT to court or have them arrested? After all, according to you they have broken the law. I'm sure someone's gonna throw the "but they operate outside the countries where the law is enforceable" which is just a way of saying the software license has no weight in those countries. Regardless it's just a contract, and it's pretty clear that what is said in the Software License Agreement has little influence since it's basically not possible to enforce.

A contract is still a contract, even if it is difficult to enforce. Even if the chinese government isn't helping SE catch these criminals, the fact remains that they broke a law. And actually, it's quite common for gil/gold/whatever sellers to use stolen credit cards to pay for accounts. Nearly every game I know of with a serious RMT problem has mentioned that as an issue in the past. They're also not above infecting computers to steal account information either, which is also a crime.

[Preypacer]

If it really we're illegal, then why doesn't SE actually take people involved in RMT to court or have them arrested? After all, according to you they have broken the law. I'm sure someone's gonna throw the "but they operate outside the countries where the law is enforceable" which is just a way of saying the software license has no weight in those countries. Regardless it's just a contract, and it's pretty clear that what is said in the Software License Agreement has little influence since it's basically not possible to enforce. There simply is no way to tell if someone is violating the agreement or not without violating their privacy (by that I mean spying on them).

BTW, just to clarify the licence agreement says you don't own your account or characters, and may not sell, rent, or reproduce them or any virtual assets. You agree they have no "monetary" value. And you agree to not use any of SE's services for commercial purposes. What is does NOT say is that I can not "give" my account, character or virtual assets away. And should I find $200 your bank account the next day it's clearly "unrelated" (or so you could claim).

I think you need to read their post again.

They said it's illegal -within the context of SE's EULA-. In other words, RMT is breaking SE's laws for their own game, and they take action accordingly. There are no state or federal laws against RMT companies buying or selling virtual goods for a MMORPG. SE determines the laws within their own game, and then they enforce them.

They don't need to go to court because it's something they handle themselves. Once they realized the damage RMT was doing to FFXI a few years back, SE implemented the RMT Task Force to deal wth them in-game. I understand they're doing the same, or are ramping up to do the same in XIV.

Incidentally, as I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, there is precedent that if SE (or any other developer) were to take a RMT company to court, they have a good chance of winning. Blizzard took a RMT company to court and were awarded the decision. So, now that that precedent has been set, if any other developer wanted to sue a RMT company, they'd have a better chance of winning.

Folks, it's very simple... So long as there are terms prohibiting RMT or its related activities in a game, it is not allowed. It is not "okay". It is not "perfectly legit". When you agree to the EULA, you are agreeing not to engage in RMT activity. If you do so anyway, you are doing so in violation of that EULA and it's SE's (or any developer) right to ban your account if you're caught. Period. End of discussion.

Your "opinion" or personal "moral beliefs" on the matter do not matter. How you "think" it should be does not matter. You do not set the rules. SE does.

If you're going to RMT, then that's what you're going to do, and you take the risks associated with it. Just own up to what you're doing and stop trying to spin and defend it as being "a-okay" when you know damn well it's not.

As for your statement about not knowing someone is violating the EULA or not without spying on them... Are you serious?

MMOs track everything you do. Every transaction. They can track when you teleport, how many mobs you fight, how many quests you do. Who you trade with, and what you're trading. And so on. They absolutely do know what you're doing in-game and can utilize internal tools to look for specific patterns of activity that are commonly associated with RMT, hacking, botting, etc. This is basically how the RMT Task Force was able to track down and deal with farmers and such in XI. It's how other developers do it in their games. Is it spying? No. It's not. It's the developer policing and monitoring their own game to make sure people aren't doing crap they're not supposed to be. They are not "violating" anyone's privacy.

When you log into a MMO, you're in their house playing by their rules. Not the other way around.

Just don't do crap you're not supposed to be, play the game within its intended scope. Then you have absolutely nothing to worry about.