Why is the game Accessable but not Accessable?

[Deveryn]

There's a good progression track in the game. The trouble is people don't actually practice and learn as much as they should.

[Lunaxia]

I think OP kind of has a point. Unless you know where to go, finding and unlocking Extremes/ Savage can be a bit confusing, especially now we're several expansions in and adding in the proclivity of sprouts to rush through the game to reach the latest content and likely not noticing the locations where they're to be unlocked. Perhaps a little message after completing a trial or raid saying "the extreme version of this fight can be found in ___" would be useful, or giving players a bit of information about accessing harder fights in ARR.

I've been casual PUG-ing various Savage tiers on and off since HW and never had a problem with being "vetted" though, and I'm far from a decent orange parser - that sounds more like someone trying to join a static they're not ready for. Meet the basic ilvl requirement, know your rotation (and a guide, if it's not blind) and jump in, and more often than not you'll be fine. If not, you'll soon learn.

[Jeeqbit]

I think OP kind of has a point. Unless you know where to go, finding and unlocking Extremes/ Savage can be a bit confusing, especially now we're several expansions in and adding in the proclivity of sprouts to rush through the game to reach the latest content and likely not noticing the locations where they're to be unlocked. Perhaps a little message after completing a trial or raid saying "the extreme version of this fight can be found in ___" would be useful, or giving players a bit of information about accessing harder fights in ARR.

Among the most common advice given to new players is to do blue quests and that should make them unlock them. I agree that in some cases they may be lost amongst all of the blue quests or not certain where to find the minstrel though. A lot of people seem to miss the sidequest trials such as Warring Triad, the Four Lord or the Sorrow of Werlyt, which is something I've run into a lot lately where people think they unlocked everything and didn't know these trials existed. The only idea I can think of is to put all duties in Duty Finder, but replace it with "not unlocked" and show the unlock location in the details.

I've been casual PUG-ing various Savage tiers on and off since HW and never had a problem with being "vetted" though, and I'm far from a decent orange parser - that sounds more like someone trying to join a static they're not ready for. Meet the basic ilvl requirement, know your rotation (and a guide, if it's not blind) and jump in, and more often than not you'll be fine. If not, you'll soon learn.

I agree. If you are worried about vetting you can simply avoid the people who vet or find parties with lower standards who aren't trying to speedkill but just kill.

[Deveryn]

Among the most common advice given to new players is to do blue quests and that should make them unlock them. I agree that in some cases they may be lost amongst all of the blue quests or not certain where to find the minstrel though. A lot of people seem to miss the sidequest trials such as Warring Triad, the Four Lord or the Sorrow of Werlyt, which is something I've run into a lot lately where people think they unlocked everything and didn't know these trials existed. The only idea I can think of is to put all duties in Duty Finder, but replace it with "not unlocked" and show the unlock location in the details.

Doesn't Duty > Recommendations already cover these quests?

[Atelier-Bagur]

I think OP kind of has a point. Unless you know where to go, finding and unlocking Extremes/ Savage can be a bit confusing, especially now we're several expansions in and adding in the proclivity of sprouts to rush through the game to reach the latest content and likely not noticing the locations where they're to be unlocked. Perhaps a little message after completing a trial or raid saying "the extreme version of this fight can be found in ___" would be useful, or giving players a bit of information about accessing harder fights in ARR.

I've been casual PUG-ing various Savage tiers on and off since HW and never had a problem with being "vetted" though, and I'm far from a decent orange parser - that sounds more like someone trying to join a static they're not ready for. Meet the basic ilvl requirement, know your rotation (and a guide, if it's not blind) and jump in, and more often than not you'll be fine. If not, you'll soon learn.

You just follow the big obvious blue quest markers for content unlock. Dont know how more complex and inviting it can be than that.

[Lunaxia]

You just follow the big obvious blue quest markers for content unlock. Dont know how more complex and inviting it can be than that.

Are you aware of just how much content there is for a sprout to sift through? Between all the many, many, many dungeons to unlock, hunt quests, deep dungeon quests, beast tribe quests and those required to unlock them, glamour quests, crafting/ gathering quests, normal raid quests and finally those needed for Savage/ EX, there is a lot to go through, and it's very easy to miss side content as it's not always in the most expected or intuitive location. If Yoshi wants to bring in more players to harder content as he seems to, a little direction would go a long way.

I'm not really sure why the forums have such a bizarre bias against newer players receiving some help or guidance, really.

[Midareyukki]

Are you aware of just how much content there is for a sprout to sift through? Between all the many, many, many dungeons to unlock, hunt quests, deep dungeon quests, beast tribe quests and those required to unlock them, glamour quests, crafting/ gathering quests, normal raid quests and finally those needed for Savage/ EX, there is a lot to go through, and it's very easy to miss side content as it's not always in the most expected or intuitive location. If Yoshi wants to bring in more players to harder content as he seems to, a little direction would go a long way.

I'm not really sure why the forums have such a bizarre bias against newer players receiving some help or guidance, really.

We don't. You misinterpret that, greatly.

I'll say one thing though, before anything else. The game should be more intuitive on where you unlock some stuff. Not everything in the game is unlocked through one obvious blue quest, though it's rare. And those instances are indeed scattered. I'd rather that information be made far more plain and easy to access in-game to cut down on the need to google things.

That said. Information isn't exactly hidden from you, and for the most part of the content, things are brightly visible to you. It's all a matter of time. Sprouts have a lot of content to go through, that much is true. But they're playing an MMO, there's so much more to do outside the MSQ. And while it can feel overwhelming, it's a necessary evil. They'd be overwhelmed with an in-game list of what to do and where to find it anyway. You can also make the argument that "oh, well, not everything needs to be unlocked anyway", which I only very partly subscribe to, and it doesn't exactly improve on the matter when it comes to accessibility when people actually want to do it. But it's a thought. Because some stuff can very well be skipped.

I doubt new players are that helpless. And it's eventually a matter of time, patience and research, as there's quite a lot of information outside the game that is readily-availble thanks to fan effort. Google, again, exists. For better and for worse.

So it's less so "lmao new players fend for yourselves". It's just that there's no real other way to approach the subject without going overboard on the way the game's designed. And I'd rather not open that particular can of worms... So what we have will have to suffice, and thankfully, there are players out there who were gracious enough to make that information organized and available to look up. Past that, it's up to the sprout's discernment. Some people in-game can help, and at least the necessary stuff is marked rather visibly in not too inconspicuous locations.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Are you aware of just how much content there is for a sprout to sift through? Between all the many, many, many dungeons to unlock, hunt quests, deep dungeon quests, beast tribe quests and those required to unlock them, glamour quests, crafting/ gathering quests, normal raid quests and finally those needed for Savage/ EX, there is a lot to go through, and it's very easy to miss side content as it's not always in the most expected or intuitive location. If Yoshi wants to bring in more players to harder content as he seems to, a little direction would go a long way.

I'm not really sure why the forums have such a bizarre bias against newer players receiving some help or guidance, really.

Because, this game already holds your hand so often with guiding you through it? The progression in this game is much linear compared to most MMOs that those optional blue quests are very easy to follow and doesnt usually take that much time to unlock the content. I'm saying this as somebody whom was a sprout once upon a time, I never had trouble or felt overwhelmed with stuff because the game and community actively encourages you to take your time and I took it to heart. I was able to sift through 10 years of content within a span of half a year playing casually.

[Lunaxia]

We don't. You misinterpret that, greatly.

I really don't. There's frequently a very strange amount of what I can only describe as bitterness and reluctance to offer any kind of direction or instruction to newer players, or giving them some kind of reprieve from what can be long-winded or confusing parts of the game. I play around with alts frequently and I think long-term players are out of touch with just how overwhelming it can be. Not everything has to be a trial by fire.

I'll say one thing though, before anything else. The game should be more intuitive on where you unlock some stuff. Not everything in the game is unlocked through one obvious blue quest, though it's rare. And those instances are indeed scattered. I'd rather that information be made far more plain and easy to access in-game to cut down on the need to google things.

That's more or less what I'm saying. And if everyone is as tired of the same duties appearing in roulettes as they claim - and the devs want to see more interaction with the content they put in hard work for - I don't see the harm in giving players a gentle nudge in the right direction. Is a text box you'll never even see so offensive?

That said.

I feel like you're offering up arguments and then just answering yourself, when we basically seem to agree on the main point. I never said a catalogue or a list was required, but I think a tag-along notice during parts of the story to guide players to similar side content could help at times, that they can take or leave. Some players actually want to challenge harder content, for instance, but it's a bit of a hike to get to when you don't immediately know it's there in the first place - doubly so if you're new to MMOs overall and not familiar with how they work or what they tend to offer.

[Midareyukki]

I feel like you're offering up arguments and then just answering yourself, when we basically seem to agree on the main point. I never said a catalogue or a list was required, but I think a tag-along notice during parts of the story to guide players to similar side content could help at times, that they can take or leave. Some players actually want to challenge harder content, for instance, but it's a bit of a hike to get to when you don't immediately know it's there in the first place - doubly so if you're new to MMOs overall and not familiar with how they work or what they tend to offer.

Because we do agree, to an extent. Your issue is that you're fearmongering and going overboard with that panic. "Think of the sprouts!". Yes... we do. The community does. SE should do something about it, but there are ways around it.

No sprouts are harmed in the unlocking of this content.

Plus I answer myself, because unlike you, I actually provide fixes to the issue and acknowledge where it lies? Rather than blame the forums for being anti-sprouts?