The Venat Cutscene

[Iscah]

Makes sense to me- I wonder if the Allagans the thing going on in Azem Steppe would, over time, cause it to also be drained like the Burn

The Allagan device on the steppe seems to be blocking the flow of aether rather than outright draining it from the surrounding – otherwise you would expect it to be in the centre of the desolation, not away from it.

[KageTokage]

The Burn wasn't even a product of primal summonings, it was just more Allagan tech shenanigans that gave Solus/Emet-Selch a convenient excuse to start their nation's anti-eikon campaign...assuming he didn't orchestrate that intentionally as well considering his involvement with Allag.

Probably the largest scale case of a primal draining aether from the land was the business with Anima and the towers but even that wasn't having any readily discernable negative effects on the environment, though it is noted in the role quests that the Tower of Zot itself has altered the aether flows around Garlemald for the worse and that it would take a long while before things normalize.

[Cleretic]

Again: it was literally stated in the Alexander quests that it was draining aether at a prodigious rate when it moved, because a machine that goddamn big is ludicrously energy-inefficient to run. It's actually something true about real-world physics, it's one of the many reasons mecha wouldn't make sense in real life: even if it was theoretically a good design in every other way, the energy required to move a body that huge around on legs--especially two legs--is just far too much. In real life that'd mostly just mean they couldn't move very far or for very long without running out of power (weirdly, Evangelion was the one big mecha anime that stuck to that; the others mostly find a Minovsky particle-style workaround). But when we're dealing with it in the context of FFXIV's primals, particularly Alexander, it sucks up the aether it needs from everywhere else; the treasure of Seal Rock made it very capable of that, but we see other primals swinging it in ways that suggest that yeah, it's a ubiquitous thing, Alexander just needed up its intake because it's that goddamn huge. For the most part primals aren't around long enough for that to be a big problem by itself, but it is a known thing to be wary of; Ramuh was being quiet but was eventually on the docket, Alexander's sheer size made it alarming before anything else, and Anima (and the Towers that were part of it) actually was around long enough to have a measurable effect. It's just that usually OTHER parts of the primal recipe usually get dangerous before the aether drain does.

Time loops and paradoxes are not something that requires active energy to maintain in this setting (or in fact most settings, I think only Doctor Who does that, even then only sometimes); there was absolutely no mention of that, and indeed if that were true, then the actual end-of-story solution of Alexander locking itself in a time bubble would've made the problem WORSE, not BETTER.

But again: Necrotica is not raising these in good faith. I didn't bring these up because I don't think they're actually interested in learning or in having a dialog, they're just interested in keeping up an argument for the sake of annoying us. Everything I've said is very easily findable and answerable, but they probably know that, and are just grinding down our patience with ridiculous claims.

[Necrotica]

Time loops and paradoxes are not something that requires active energy to maintain in this setting (or in fact most settings, I think only Doctor Who does that, even then only sometimes); there was absolutely no mention of that, and indeed if that were true, then the actual end-of-story solution of Alexander locking itself in a time bubble would've made the problem WORSE, not BETTER.

But again: Necrotica is not raising these in good faith. I didn't bring these up because I don't think they're actually interested in learning or in having a dialog, they're just interested in keeping up an argument for the sake of annoying us. Everything I've said is very easily findable and answerable, but they probably know that, and are just grinding down our patience with ridiculous claims.

You just can't quit me can you?

And Alexander's time bubble was absolutely a huge portion of it's aether drain. Primal sitting and doing nothing does not burn nearly as much aether as one repeatedly resetting a time loop in a controlled area. Both Elidibus and Graha explained the TREMENDOUS amounts of aether needed for time travel. And Alexander had that set to repeat. Yes, Alexander burned a crap ton of aether to move around. He was a 50's car. But that is nothing compared to what he would be draining constantly going back in time.

[kaynide]

Re: Alexander-

My understanding of the story was that Alexander was designed to judge to do X Y or Z, but ultimately decided not doing ANYTHING was the best answer, as if it did anything it would destroy more than it could save. Not that it was locked in an infinite time bubble, just that it shut itself down because it simply being active would drain aether to an extreme amount.

You know, War Games reference ("The only winning move is not to play.")

The Burn wasn't even a product of primal summonings, it was just more Allagan tech shenanigans that gave Solus/Emet-Selch a convenient excuse to start their nation's anti-eikon campaign.

Especially since Solus is Emet-Selch...you could be 100% correct. Propaganda to cause a calamity.

There are things pointing at it possibly being primal-related, Alyz Lla related, or even the weird Allagan artifact in Azem Steppe related. I don't have it all in front of me now, but "Emet Shenanigans" is an easy option and very likely true.

[Iscah]

I don't see any reason to think that Alexander required energy input to maintain the time loop.

It requires energy to travel through time, but once it has moved – and more relevantly has deposited people or objects away from their original time-location – then the normal rules of time and space apply to them and Alexander does not need to continually manipulate "the time loop" as some kind of abstract thing that constantly exists.

[Cleretic]

Yeah, it's my understanding that the Burn was basically the launch site for Azys Lla, which is why it's like that. The actual landmass chunks were confirmed to be from all over--at least one part is from Meracydia according to the sightseeing log. I'd have to review why exactly I think the Burn was the launch site, though, I don't recall the exact evidence and the Encyclopedia Eorzea 2 doesn't get far enough into 4.x to hit the Burn.

It wasn't caused by primals, but it is exactly what the end state of even a passive primal like Ramuh would be if left alone. The Flood of Light had essentially the same effect on the majority of the First; three different routes to the same disastrous end.

[kaynide]

Makes sense to me- could have been several mana drains here and there that kickstarted the launch. Maybe the tunnel beetles were all allagan related for “laying pipes” to siphon the aether.

Perhaps Azem Steppe also had the infrastructure needed to supply aether (crooked coin), it just wasn’t needed.


That said if The Burn was what was needed to initially launch Azys, I wonder if that spurred the concept of using summons/faith as mana batteries. Given that it only takes the 3 warring triad (and captives) to keep it aloft, it seems an obvious improvement albeit inhumane.

Or we might be working on WeIrD MaGiC rules where once aloft it doesn’t need that much to keep it aloft as initial enchantments handle that…

[Naraku_Diabolos]

What the majority of you users posting on here have forgotten is that we (our character) traveled to the past and had directly altered it by meeting Venat in Elpis. Prior to us traveling to Elpis (story 2.0 to pre-6.0) the past was already the way it was because Venat never knew ahead of time that Zodiark was going to be summoned due to the Final Days. But with us traveling to Elpis, we met Venat in the past and gave her a heads up about the Zodiark summoning. That is why we saw no clash of Hydaelyn versus Zodiark to create the Sundering. We gave Venat info ahead of time so she did the Sundering as herself right after Zodiark was summoned. She didn’t have to be a vessel for Hydaelyn’s summon to do the Sundering because we alerted her of the Final Days and Zodiark. That’s why when finished that long cutscene from exiting Elpis, Venat said that our timelines have now mixed.

When we defeated Zodiark, we get the dialogue with the darkened planet from the Endsinger herself (it’s her voice, not Meteion’s). Since we tampered in Elpis, the Endsinger didn’t exist right after that. It’s when we traveled to Ultima Thule that we THEN pushed Meteion to become the Endsinger.

[Iscah]

...

You are mistaken about the basics of the time travel alteration, and from there reaching the wrong conclusion about thinking "Meteion only becomes the Endsinger later".

Multiple incidents from the beginning of Endwalker indicate that the world is already in a state affected by our trip to Elpis. If there ever theoretically was a timeline where the changes were yet to be applied, we are not in it, but more likely there never was such a timeline and it has always played out this way.

• At the beginning of the game when Hydaelyn speaks to us on the ship, she is already aware that we are approaching the point where the time loop resolves.

• Argos is willing to let us ride him when we first (to us) meet him on the moon because to him, we already met him in Elpis and earned his trust there. This is specified in the mount description as a quirk of time travel.

• As you note, the Endsinger – the collective Meteia as opposed to a single Meteion – already exists.

Also, even if there theoretically was a "pre-altered timeline" without our interference at Elpis, I don't agree that it could change the Endsinger from a pre-existing entity with its own history to being connected up to the Meteia.

And I don't believe there is any need for a pre-altered timeline to exist, particularly in this universe's time-travel rules. The ultimate example of this is when we travel back in time during the A12 fight to save our earlier self from Alexander's laser beam. There cannot be a pre-interference version of this timeline, because then we would be dead and unavailable to be sent back. Alternately, if something else saved us the first time, then there is no need to overwrite the event. Therefore logically no version of events occurred except the one we experienced, time travel and all.