The Venat Cutscene

[Cleretic]

The main crisis around Alexander was specifically that it was such a colossal aether drain that it could kill the planet by going for a walk. It's literally in the game itself.

[Necrotica]

The main crisis around Alexander was specifically that it was such a colossal aether drain that it could kill the planet by going for a walk. It's literally in the game itself.

Alexander was constantly using aether to maintain a time loop though. Anyone using Louisoix's staff constantly would have the same effect. And he was the first Primal to actually go into the Aether drain. Every primal before that was a threat because of the danger they posed via brainwashing and actually just being a powerful force that threatens supremacy of the three kingdoms.

Ysayle as Shiva was not considered some threat to the world that would drain aether from the land killing everything. If she was I would hope the WoL would have killed her immediately instead of lettering her walk freely when at any point she could decide so summon Shiva and start killing everything around her via aether drain.

We even let Ramuh just chill in an alive state in ARR when we first learned of his summoning cause we were told he was not a threat. If primals just existing KILLS THE PLANET then that should not have been considered an option.

[Vyrerus]

Garlean Lies. Primals don't drain the land of aether etc. etc.

Honey, baby, peach... The Scions themselves point out that Primals do just that over two dozen times before the end of ARR, and continue to mention it every other opportunity they get. It's that same link to the land that allows the Eden storyline to work. Because there's naturally a flow of aether between Primals and the land around them, by killing them, their aether seeps into/back into the land.

There's weird exceptions, like Susano. But by and large, until the Endwalker(muffled rage filled screaming)'s whole, "Oh yeah, nah man, Primals would be fine if they weren't summoned using those corrupt Ascians rituals..." all Primals everywhere require ambient aether, aether of the land/planet, in order to maintain their forms once summoned. (And hell, people require ambient aether to live normally, so it's likely that the greater the being, the greater their tax on the ambient aether).

It's not that they directly kill the planet. It's that they make it harder for life to grow/sustain itself. It's reason #2 for putting them down. #1 being the soul enslavement. The reason for letting Ramuh chill is that there was a lot of shit going on around the same time, and the Scions were like, "Maybe we can put him on the back burner for a moment cause we can only do so much."

As for Ysayle, she had the Echo and spoke of Hydaelyn, and she was an ally to our cause. She only resorted to her Shiva transformation when absolutely necessary, and it's always short lived (just like her, Q.Q). Had she elected to try and maintain her Shiva form long term, then yes, it would have drained the ambient aether and taxed the land.

[Kirisu]

Ysayle as Shiva was not considered some threat to the world that would drain aether from the land killing everything. If she was I would hope the WoL would have killed her immediately instead of lettering her walk freely when at any point she could decide so summon Shiva and start killing everything around her via aether drain.

We even let Ramuh just chill in an alive state in ARR when we first learned of his summoning cause we were told he was not a threat. If primals just existing KILLS THE PLANET then that should not have been considered an option.

Ramuh wasn't a priority threat at the time because there were other, much more aggressive primals knocking on our door, more specifically Ramuh doesn't leave his domain in the Sylphlands and doesn't aggressively convert "worshippers" from other denizens of the Twelveswood, so while his presence is certainly still harmful to the ecosystem because of how much ambient aether he guzzles to sustain himself he doesn't proactively threaten the citizens unlike the rest of them.

Ysayle is also a bit of an exception to rule, because she has the Echo and Blessing of Light so she doesn't temper herself when transforming, so the WoL doesn't kill her because she can change, which she does.

The thing is though... although the WoL could do the same thing, they never, ever would. The inherent risk of the experiment isn't worth whatever you think we stand to gain from the experience.

Just stop, this chapter (though it's more like a whole book) of the story is closed and over, we shouldn't tread that old ground.

[Cleretic]

I'm overall convinced that Necrotica's just that kind of 'quiet troll' you see sometimes: constantly saying things that are technically normal things to say that just happen to be disagreeable or frustrating, but saying them constantly with no regard for consistency or relevance, so that it pisses people off while no single statement is technically enough to trip any alarms.

Necrotica manages it mostly by being constantly just factually wrong enough to make controversial claims that they can claim they hold strongly, only to either shift to a completely different one or entirely disappear when people tell them such. This thread's a perfect example: When 'the Venat cutscene is evidence that she's mentally damaged/deluded' got shot down, they moved to 'it makes no sense why they showed us that scene', then to 'the WoL could become a primal', then 'primals draining the land is a lie', then 'Alexander was draining the land by a constant time loop and also Ramuh did nothing wrong'. All of these are easily refuted, but each one just led to another claim that's easily proved factually wrong that would make no sense for them to hold or bring up EXCEPT that it keeps us arguing with them.

I'm done with it, and I advise everyone else to be, too. They're just going to reply to someone with another two-sentence nonsense claim that you can very easily disprove, that serves no purpose but to keep us annoyed at them.

[Necrotica]

At this point there are enough exceptions to the rule of Primals draining aether at a speed great enough to kill the surrounding area I don\\'t think it can be assumed as a primary threat. 100% yes the brainwashing was a concern and still mostly is despite the availability of a cure and protections. Being pulled proof and having a doctor doesn\\'t mean you actively try and get shot.

Using the scions said so though is a horrible argument. The scions said the echo prevented tempering those liars. They also could not believe at first that Good King Moogle Mog XII (may his will be everlasting as he strike down his foes), was a primal. At that point they thought Primals were limited to just worshipped ditties. The scions are well educated, but they are not all knowing.

Looking at how long some primals can just hang around without damaging their environment (Ramuh did not even kill the plant life in his immediate vicinity) I would be more worried about Garlean technology causing global warming before a few primals would drain the land enough to cause lasting harm. With a few notable exceptions.

Can go back to the show don\\'t tell issue. If they made a point of having the areas where Primals get summoned become dead spots of no aether, that would make it very clear the danger they posed to the environment.

Cleretic you are a joy to have in any conversation.

[kaynide]

Using the scions said so though is a horrible argument. The scions said the echo prevented tempering those liars. They also could not believe at first that Good King Moogle Mog XII (may his will be everlasting as he strike down his foes), was a primal. At that point they thought Primals were limited to just worshipped ditties. The scions are well educated, but they are not all knowing.

You need to remember that, above all else, this is a video game. The scions are only ever wrong if it is deemed necessary by the story writers for some effect, or due to future retcon. Otherwise, the Scions have been shown quite well employing the scientific method.

Being wrong is not in itself wrong when they are moving towards truth. And being wrong is not the same as being misleading or dishonest.

If they made a point of having the areas where Primals get summoned become dead spots of no aether, that would make it very clear the danger they posed to the environment.

*Gestures wildly at the place known as “The Burn”.

[Iscah]

*Gestures wildly at the place known as “The Burn”.

The thing with the Burn is that it isn't the result of a primal summoning, but it is the result of depriving the land of aether. So if primals are not having that kind of effect on their locations then they are presumably not draining aether from the locations.

However, that is not necessarily the same thing as them not draining the land's aether in the long term. It is possible that they need regular offerings of crystals so they don't run out of power and have to start draining the land directly to maintain their existence.

[SannaR]

The thing with the Burn is that it isn't the result of a primal summoning, but it is the result of depriving the land of aether. So if primals are not having that kind of effect on their locations then they are presumably not draining aether from the locations.

However, that is not necessarily the same thing as them not draining the land's aether in the long term. It is possible that they need regular offerings of crystals so they don't run out of power and have to start draining the land directly to maintain their existence.

Correct. We see prayers and something else other than crystals used as an energy source in at least three places. One being Dalamud where it collected solar energy from the sun, sending any excess off towards the Crystal Tower. The rest along with prayer of Bahamut's thralls kept him fed. We see two grim versions of this in the game. One is the forceful summoning of Titan and Ifrit where the prayers of their followers are used along with their own aether to manifest them. Titan again gets summoned using the grief stricken wish of Ga Bu for his parents who's souls I want to say acted as the fuel as the summoning. Even the Waring Triad had faults put into their containment to allow them to gain some form of ambient aether while their thralls were held in stasis. At least I want to say it was stasis unless Sophia's just didn't care that Allag wasn't a thing anymore.

[kaynide]

The thing with the Burn is that it isn't the result of a primal summoning, but it is the result of depriving the land of aether. So if primals are not having that kind of effect on their locations then they are presumably not draining aether from the locations.

However, that is not necessarily the same thing as them not draining the land's aether in the long term. It is possible that they need regular offerings of crystals so they don't run out of power and have to start draining the land directly to maintain their existence.

Makes sense to me- I wonder if the Allagans the thing going on in Azem Steppe would, over time, cause it to also be drained like the Burn